Housing market

alarson

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I’m heavily invested in real estate so obviously hope this doesn’t happen, but part of me wonders if this ginormous bubble is about to burst. That’s what I would be scared about if I was a first time buyer.

As long as we remain way, way under demand due to not enough housing units having been built over the last 10-15 years, I think prices will stay high. Materials prices affecting the costs of new homes also play into that.
 

simply1

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I’d be worried buying now too, but all the indicators point to sustained housing prices. Which worries me too… no winning!
 

simply1

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I looked at a house yesterday that is valued at $240k. That lady bought it for 95 just a few years ago.

Living in Iowa would be affordable and I would be able to put money in savings. Living in New Mexico is another story.
Don’t know your criteria, a few examples. Nevada if you want to be by Ames

Clear lake

northeast

Lot of places well under $200k all over.

You might look at Sioux Falls too for no income tax.
 
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Tailg8er

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I looked at a house yesterday that is valued at $240k. That lady bought it for 95 just a few years ago.

Living in Iowa would be affordable and I would be able to put money in savings. Living in New Mexico is another story.

When was the last time you lived in Iowa? It has changed…..

Well yeah, everywhere has obviously changed.. Iowa is still more affordable overall and in most categories.

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SCNCY

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As long as we remain way, way under demand due to not enough housing units having been built over the last 10-15 years, I think prices will stay high. Materials prices affecting the costs of new homes also play into that.

Agreed. The last bubble was due to banks increasing the monetary supply through various mortgage derivatives, this driving up prices. This is simply demand driven due to more people and not enough housing. Until supply increases, nothing will change.
 
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Gunnerclone

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Agreed. The last bubble was due to banks increasing the monetary supply through various mortgage derivatives, this driving up prices. This is simply demand driven due to more people and not enough housing. Until supply increases, nothing will change.

I love how people see capitalism and it’s “there has to a bubble!” Everything is bubble!
 

mywayorcyway

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Agreed. The last bubble was due to banks increasing the monetary supply through various mortgage derivatives, this driving up prices. This is simply demand driven due to more people and not enough housing. Until supply increases, nothing will change.
I don't disagree with any of this, but don't people eventually have to run out of money to afford these places? They either won't have enough cash to buy or they'll overborrow.
 

Gunnerclone

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I don't disagree with any of this, but don't people eventually have to run out of money to afford these places? They either won't have enough cash to buy or they'll overborrow.

I think this market is actually stamping that out. Can’t win in a bidding war, can’t afford to build or wait to build.

They either stay put or drop down to a price point with less competition.
 

mynameisjonas

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I love how people that are clueless about real estate wouldn’t maybe pump the brakes just a little bit during a time period that is historically the worst time in the history of this country to be a buyer, especially if you’re a first time buyer. I completely agree with @drmwevr08. Not saying not to buy a house if you’re a first time buyer. There just a lot of factors at play. Demand is high right now, but a combination of: High prices curb demand. High inflation curbs demand. Rates going up could curb demand, even though they’re still historically low. When you take a look at how much values have gone up in the last few years, you have to ask yourself if that’s going to continue or at the very least would it plateau. So if you are a first time buyer with little down payment but plan on living in the house for less than 3 years I might pass on buying. But if you’re long term you should be fine.
 
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Entropy

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I looked at a house yesterday that is valued at $240k. That lady bought it for 95 just a few years ago.

Living in Iowa would be affordable and I would be able to put money in savings. Living in New Mexico is another story.
My old man retired to Fort Sumner, NM.
Housing is pretty cheap, but then you’d have to live in Fort Sumner.
 
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Gunnerclone

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I love how people that are clueless about real estate wouldn’t maybe pump the brakes just a little bit during a time period that is historically the worst time in the history of this country to be a buyer, especially if you’re a first time buyer. I completely agree with @drmwevr08. Not saying not to buy a house if you’re a first time buyer. There just a lot of factors at play. Demand is high right now, but a combination of: High prices curb demand. High inflation curbs demand. Rates going up could curb demand, even though they’re still historically low. When you take a look at how much values have gone up in the last few years, you have to ask yourself if that’s going to continue or at the very least would it plateau. So if you are a first time buyer with little down payment but plan on living in the house for less than 3 years I might pass on buying. But if you’re long term you should be fine.

People with means just aren’t going to stay somewhere they don’t want to be. People are changing jobs (and locations) more frequently. It’s cutthroat, but those trends aren’t stopping until a real recession hits.
 
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SCNCY

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I don't disagree with any of this, but don't people eventually have to run out of money to afford these places? They either won't have enough cash to buy or they'll overborrow.

Eventually an equilibrium will be met for each level of houses. But all that’s happening is that for a certain quality of house you could buy years ago, your not going to be able to get that for the same price, the buyer will have to drop their quality standards if they are willing to.

Also, the only risk of running out of money is from those who actually win the contract and purchase the house, they other 10 or so bidders aren’t loosing anything.
 

wxman1

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I don't disagree with any of this, but don't people eventually have to run out of money to afford these places? They either won't have enough cash to buy or they'll overborrow.

its not impossible but it is incredibly hard to over borrow these days especially on a house purchase.
 
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twincyties

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Agreed. The last bubble was due to banks increasing the monetary supply through various mortgage derivatives, this driving up prices. This is simply demand driven due to more people and not enough housing. Until supply increases, nothing will change.
This is 100% true (I work in this business and specialize in property valuation).

demand for housing now is with much stricter underwriting standards. It’s not “if you can fog a mirror you qualify for a loan like it was 15 years ago.

also, even if demand were to decline (which is naturally Will at some price - because people won’t be able to meet said underwriting standards) we are in a completely different starting point than 06-08.

when market turned then you had a ton of people with no equity or even under water due to inflated appraisals, negative amortization products, 100+ LTV programs etc. Today ,Americans have more equity in their homes than ever.
What this means is that if market turns and people became unable to pay (which is also very unlikely right now with low unemployment rates) they could sell and walk away with cash. Same is true if inflation catches up yo people that are scraping to make mortgage payments.

In 06-08 we could not say that. So they default which, in turn floods market with inventory and let’s just say large mortgage servicers don’t act like your average American family - meaning they unload ASAP. That’s how a death spiral starts.

it’s also clear that policy makers learned their lesson from last time. The wide scale and proactive forebearance programs early in COVID were designed to give people - and the market - time to recover (which it did) and not create another race to the bottom by flooding the market with inventory. By all accounts, this was wildly successful. There has been some concern within the industry about what happens when those programs come to an end, but so few homeowners still in them. And - to early point - they most likely have equity which changes behavior.

Can’t say anything will “never” happen, but barring a major economic event I just don’t see another crash on the horizon.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Don’t know your criteria, a few examples. Nevada if you want to be by Ames

Clear lake

northeast

Lot of places well under $200k all over.

You might look at Sioux Falls too for no income tax.
That’s not clear lake, that’s Ventura. Huge difference in value.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
This is 100% true (I work in this business and specialize in property valuation).

demand for housing now is with much stricter underwriting standards. It’s not “if you can fog a mirror you qualify for a loan like it was 15 years ago.

also, even if demand were to decline (which is naturally Will at some price - because people won’t be able to meet said underwriting standards) we are in a completely different starting point than 06-08.

when market turned then you had a ton of people with no equity or even under water due to inflated appraisals, negative amortization products, 100+ LTV programs etc. Today ,Americans have more equity in their homes than ever.
What this means is that if market turns and people became unable to pay (which is also very unlikely right now with low unemployment rates) they could sell and walk away with cash. Same is true if inflation catches up yo people that are scraping to make mortgage payments.

In 06-08 we could not say that. So they default which, in turn floods market with inventory and let’s just say large mortgage servicers don’t act like your average American family - meaning they unload ASAP. That’s how a death spiral starts.

it’s also clear that policy makers learned their lesson from last time. The wide scale and proactive forebearance programs early in COVID were designed to give people - and the market - time to recover (which it did) and not create another race to the bottom by flooding the market with inventory. By all accounts, this was wildly successful. There has been some concern within the industry about what happens when those programs come to an end, but so few homeowners still in them. And - to early point - they most likely have equity which changes behavior.

Can’t say anything will “never” happen, but barring a major economic event I just don’t see another crash on the horizon.
The loophole are these USDA loans in iowa. Seen 250k houses qualify for them. 20 years ago we sold a house for 57k and they thought it could be too high for one so we went with a different one that was for sure. Only need a few percent to cover that and the buyer will just raise the price and cover closing costs for you so the RE taxes kickback basically pays your down payment, it’s crazy with these underwriting things they allow.
 

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