Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[BigJCy]

This is the route I'd go with the Divisions. For the few years I'd put Oklahoma in the "Red" and Texas in the "Black". Put them in separate Divisions so then you won't have to "re-align" again when they leave. Guessing the powers that be won't end up lumping all the Texas schools in 1 Division though.

 

[cykadelic2]

I've always assumed OuT will be let out of the exit fees early, as ESPN finds a soft landing spot for the R8 by offering $'s for the new big 12 contract that are probably outside of market (essentially funding the OuT buyout over time plus a premium). As part of the R8 being "taken care of" by ESPN, the Big 12 will forgive any notion of previous contract breaches by ESPN or OuT.

Other networks however (FOX) could be a hurdle to this outcome I suppose.

I hope other networks aren't a hurdle. If the projected B12 stays intact after GOR expiration, best case scenario is to fleece ESPN/SEC/OUT to the fullest extent for Exit and GOR settlement fees via a one time payment and then execute new TV deals with Fox and newbies like Amazon, Apple, NBC/Peacock and/or CBS/Paramount. Be done with ESPN and tell them to eff themselves.

But I do agree your scenario is certainly in play if the R8 remain in the B12.

 

[cykadelic2]

This is the route I'd go with the Divisions. For the few years I'd put Oklahoma in the "Red" and Texas in the "Black". Put them in separate Divisions so then you won't have to "re-align" again when they leave. Guessing the powers that be won't end up lumping all the Texas schools in 1 Division though.

View attachment 94587

That map unfortunately illustrates the geographic absurdity of the projected B12. Hope like heck the R8 and ISU end up in geographically contiguous conferences with payouts equal to or greater than staying put.

 

[DSM4Cy]

This is the route I'd go with the Divisions. For the few years I'd put Oklahoma in the "Red" and Texas in the "Black". Put them in separate Divisions so then you won't have to "re-align" again when they leave. Guessing the powers that be won't end up lumping all the Texas schools in 1 Division though.

View attachment 94587

Even though it would be incredibly tough for FB right now, I liked the CBS proposed divisions with OSU in the North and UCF in the South better. You keep the remaining Big 8 schools together and have Cincy/WV who fit as natural rivals. From a FB standpoint, it wouldn’t hurt to be in the stronger division anyway, and the South wouldn’t be a slouch. You’d have a potential of the divisions being pretty even over time.

 

[DSM4Cy]

That map unfortunately illustrates the geographic absurdity of the projected B12. Hope like heck the R8 and ISU end up in geographically contiguous conferences with payouts equal to or greater than staying put.

Yep…I hate that UCF is coming on board, but it’s how you survive to fight another day. By far the worst fit both geographically and historically, and I don’t think it’s as much of an untapped market as others, but you can’t argue that anyone else available would have been a better choice so I get it from a practical standpoint. Then you look at the map…at least WV is no longer on an island, and BYU is out there but not nearly as much. UCF just stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[WhoISthis]

That map unfortunately illustrates the geographic absurdity of the projected B12. Hope like heck the R8 and ISU end up in geographically contiguous conferences with payouts equal to or greater than staying put.

Better than R8 being sliced and diced into the ACC and Pac12

 

[singsing]

That map unfortunately illustrates the geographic absurdity of the projected B12. Hope like heck the R8 and ISU end up in geographically contiguous conferences with payouts equal to or greater than staying put.

Seems every conference is spread out. SEC from Florida to Arkansas..Big10 from Nebraska to Rutgers. I'd much rather catch a flight to Orlando than drive to Manhattan so not too worried about geographics and the new schools.

 

[cykadelic2]

Better than R8 being sliced and diced into the ACC and Pac12

No not really. ISU is, by far, more academically aligned with both conferences (as well as the B10) and more geographically aligned in potential Pac16/Pac20 and B10 scenarios. And it is highly doubtful per school payouts for the projected B12 from incumbent and/or new media partners will exceed those of the Pac12 and ACC, especially given the recent future realignment hints from both of their commissioners.

 

[NetflixAndClone]

Would've love Memphis instead of UCF but I understand grabbing UCF.

 

[WhoISthis]

No not really. ISU is, by far, more academically aligned with both conferences (as well as the B10) and more geographically aligned in potential Pac16/Pac20 and B10 scenarios. And it is highly doubtful per school payouts for the projected B12 from incumbent and/or new media partners will exceed those of the Pac12 and ACC, especially given the recent future realignment hints from both of their commissioners.

Lol. This is what you posted:
“That map unfortunately illustrates the geographic absurdity of the projected B12. Hope like heck the R8 and ISU end up in geographically contiguous conferences with payouts equal to or greater than staying put.”

A full merger with the Pac12 isn’t occurring- a Pac9 would merge with the BIG.

If the Big 12 doesn’t survive because a few schools foolishly blink, the R8 will see what real “geographic absurdity” is like as satellite schools/pods in the P12 and ACC.

The BIG isn’t adding Iowa St. The best possible outcome is the R8 sticking together and letting some ACC and Pac12 schools come to them. The ratings suggest near parity, as does your thought that adding R8 to those conferences as being a solution for the networks. And there’s no way those 2 close the gap with the SEC and BIG, so incredibly unstable and at best it would be willingly becoming a geographical absurdity for a temporary conference

 

[Gorm]

The BIG isn’t adding Iowa St.

"The BIG isn't adding Rutgers" - Big Ten message boards in 2010. Probably.

 

[Gonzo]

"The BIG isn't adding Rutgers" - Big Ten message boards in 2010. Probably.

I don't think Rutgers was that huge a shock. Delany was all about expanding the geographic/TV footprint and that's 100% what that move was about.

 

[cykadelic2]

Lol. This is what you posted:
“That map unfortunately illustrates the geographic absurdity of the projected B12. Hope like heck the R8 and ISU end up in geographically contiguous conferences with payouts equal to or greater than staying put.”

A full merger with the Pac12 isn’t occurring- a Pac9 would merge with the BIG.

If the Big 12 doesn’t survive because a few schools foolishly blink, the R8 will see what real “geographic absurdity” is like as satellite schools/pods in the P12 and ACC.

The BIG isn’t adding Iowa St. The best possible outcome is the R8 sticking together and letting some ACC and Pac12 schools come to them. The ratings suggest near parity, as does your thought that adding R8 to those conferences as being a solution for the networks. And there’s no way those 2 close the gap with the SEC and BIG, so incredibly unstable and at best it would be willingly becoming a geographical absurdity for a temporary conference

The P12 has made it quite clear they will explore expansion and that will happen when the OUT settlement is reached with the B12.

The only R8 expansion target for the ACC is WV, no geographic absurdity there. Also no geographic absurdity with the P12 adding 4, 6 or 7 of the R8.

Suggesting a Pac9 merger with the BIG is ludicrous on multiple counts including blowing up the Rose Bowl tie ins, the geographic absurdity associated with it and the political barriers of excluding non AAU flagships in AZ State, Oregon St and Wazzu.

And as pointed out repeatedly to you, if the B10 expands, it will be KU and ISU.

 

[Gorm]

I don't think Rutgers was that huge a shock. Delany was all about expanding the geographic/TV footprint and that's 100% what that move was about.

It was to most Big 10 football fans. However, lets be honest, they saw the product on the field above anything else Rutgers may have had going for it 10 years ago. Now they are dead weight.

 

[20eyes]

It was to most Big 10 football fans. However, lets be honest, they saw the product on the field above anything else Rutgers may have had going for it 10 years ago. Now they are dead weight.

Are they though? Schiano is back and his first year back was '20, so the COVID year, he could get them cooking again in a couple years. I'm not ready to say the Rutgers addition was a bad move...especially for what it seems Delany was trying to do.

I'm sure if polled, the B1G Presidents would unanimously support RU's inclusion to the league. They fit the B1G academic profile.

 

[surly]

I have always thought that an alignment between the P12 and B12 would make sense. The P12 Network could then expand its footprint by filling the TV void in the college-centric Plains.

Three OOC games per year in football would bring interest to the western schools and upgrade B12 schedules.

For the life of me, I don't understand what's keeping this from happening? It would also act as a governor against conferences raiding one another.

 

[Cyforce]

This is the route I'd go with the Divisions. For the few years I'd put Oklahoma in the "Red" and Texas in the "Black". Put them in separate Divisions so then you won't have to "re-align" again when they leave. Guessing the powers that be won't end up lumping all the Texas schools in 1 Division though.

View attachment 94587

I think they'll split it a way that having OuT in for a short period then leave won't stir things up.

Personally I'd like to see us, KSt, KU, BTU, TT, TCU, OSU and one of the soon departing grouped together. Keeps the Big 8 schools together which to me is important

 

[JM4CY]

I have always thought that an alignment between the P12 and B12 would make sense. The P12 Network could then expand its footprint by filling the TV void in the college-centric Plains.

Three OOC games per year in football would bring interest to the western schools and upgrade B12 schedules.

For the life of me, I don't understand what's keeping this from happening? It would also act as a governor against conferences raiding one another.

I want no part of being associated with the PAC12. That thing is a complete mess, athletically.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

Are they though? Schiano is back and his first year back was '20, so the COVID year, he could get them cooking again in a couple years. I'm not ready to say the Rutgers addition was a bad move...especially for what it seems Delany was trying to do.

I'm sure if polled, the B1G Presidents would unanimously support RU's inclusion to the league. They fit the B1G academic profile.

Rutgers just brought in the 27th ranked recruiting class this year which would be second best in the big12 and they are ranked 62nd in academics by US news. They were 100% brought in to get the big ten network on more screens and that worked but they aren't the abomination they were and have some upside.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

The P12 has made it quite clear they will explore expansion and that will happen when the OUT settlement is reached with the B12.

The only R8 expansion target for the ACC is WV, no geographic absurdity there. Also no geographic absurdity with the P12 adding 4, 6 or 7 of the R8.

Suggesting a Pac9 merger with the BIG is ludicrous on multiple counts including blowing up the Rose Bowl tie ins, the geographic absurdity associated with it and the political barriers of excluding non AAU flagships in AZ State, Oregon St and Wazzu.

And as pointed out repeatedly to you, if the B10 expands, it will be KU and ISU.

While personally I would like to add ISU the value to the big ten just isn't there as it would be for other conferences and Kansas has zero value. If the big ten expands it will poach the top teams from the PAC or the premier schools from the ACC. That being said the Big ten doesn't want to expand at all.