Redskins Yes or no

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madguy30

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Washington Red Coats.

Washington Reds.

5lHo.gif
 
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Cyched

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I heard Lincolns thrown around on DP this morning.

If we’re going presidents, why not go for the obscure?

Washington Fillmores

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Washington Bushes

Washington Obamas
 

CascadeClone

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Fighting Irish is comparable to Fighting Illini. The "fighting" is debatably offensive but Irish and Illini aren't inherently offensive.

Disagree. Being drunken, brawling, uneducated, uncivilized, and worst of all Catholic was a huge prejudice and stereotype during Irish immigration. ND just basically took the stereotype and owned it rather than be offended and try to extinguish it. It's historically more offensive than it is now, but rest assured it was a thing.

2nd thought: how did Fighting Sioux name get the death penalty from the NCAA, yet Fighting Illini survives? The Illinois were a tribe/nation just like the Sioux, right? What if any, is the difference?
 

heitclone

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I don't typically like these debates, I feel most (not all) Native Americans are represented in a positive manner when used as nicknames, many of those than arent positive have been altered but this is shouldn't really be a debate. It's not comparable to things like Aztecs, Seminoles etc even Braves and Indians are ok as names if they don't have questionable mascots (see Chief Wahoo)...I mean who even refers to Native people as redskins? If its not appropriate to use in everyday conversation, it shouldn't be acceptable to use as a team mascot.
 

Cyclonepride

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Disagree. Being drunken, brawling, uneducated, uncivilized, and worst of all Catholic was a huge prejudice and stereotype during Irish immigration. ND just basically took the stereotype and owned it rather than be offended and try to extinguish it. It's historically more offensive than it is now, but rest assured it was a thing.

2nd thought: how did Fighting Sioux name get the death penalty from the NCAA, yet Fighting Illini survives? The Illinois were a tribe/nation just like the Sioux, right? What if any, is the difference?

For specific tribes, it makes the most sense to let members of that tribe decide how they view it, and if it should continue. Pretty sure Florida State reviewed their name with the Seminole tribe, and they were supportive of continuing it.
 

HFCS

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Disagree. Being drunken, brawling, uneducated, uncivilized, and worst of all Catholic was a huge prejudice and stereotype during Irish immigration. ND just basically took the stereotype and owned it rather than be offended and try to extinguish it. It's historically more offensive than it is now, but rest assured it was a thing.

2nd thought: how did Fighting Sioux name get the death penalty from the NCAA, yet Fighting Illini survives? The Illinois were a tribe/nation just like the Sioux, right? What if any, is the difference?

Good point on Irish. The name "Irish" doesn't have to be something bad but "Fighting" is a stereotype. What's missing from the Redskins comparison is an ethnic group that faces significant discrimination from our present day culture.

If a team were called Micks or Guineas and Irish and Italians were presently still facing rampant discrimination in this country it would be a parallel situation to Redskins. The Redskins name is just that obviously bad in terms of needing to go, there's not really any other team where it's so clear.

I wasn't aware of Fighting Sioux, it does seem identical to Fighting Illini.
 

jdoggivjc

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For specific tribes, it makes the most sense to let members of that tribe decide how they view it, and if it should continue. Pretty sure Florida State reviewed their name with the Seminole tribe, and they were supportive of continuing it.

Same with the Central Michigan Chippewas
 

jmb

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Fighting Irish is comparable to Fighting Illini. The "fighting" is debatably offensive but Irish and Illini aren't inherently offensive.

Redskins is comparable to something like "Blackies" or to be honest most things I'd probably have this post deleted for dreaming up. There's no angle where "Redskins" is honoring the subject in question.
What about Hawkeye?
 

jdoggivjc

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Disagree. Being drunken, brawling, uneducated, uncivilized, and worst of all Catholic was a huge prejudice and stereotype during Irish immigration. ND just basically took the stereotype and owned it rather than be offended and try to extinguish it. It's historically more offensive than it is now, but rest assured it was a thing.

2nd thought: how did Fighting Sioux name get the death penalty from the NCAA, yet Fighting Illini survives? The Illinois were a tribe/nation just like the Sioux, right? What if any, is the difference?

Illini is also representative of the people that live in Illinois, just like Iowan is for Iowa or Michigander is for Michigan. As a compromise, though, they canned the Chief Illiniwek logos.
 

jmb

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I heard Lincolns thrown around on DP this morning.

If we’re going presidents, why not go for the obscure?

Washington Fillmores

Washington Tafts

Washington Clevelands

Washington Kennedys

Washington Nixons

Washington Bushes

Washington Obamas
Don't want to offend the porn industry...
 

ISUTex

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Disagree. Being drunken, brawling, uneducated, uncivilized, and worst of all Catholic was a huge prejudice and stereotype during Irish immigration. ND just basically took the stereotype and owned it rather than be offended and try to extinguish it. It's historically more offensive than it is now, but rest assured it was a thing.

2nd thought: how did Fighting Sioux name get the death penalty from the NCAA, yet Fighting Illini survives? The Illinois were a tribe/nation just like the Sioux, right? What if any, is the difference?


Notre Dame was made up of a lot of ethnic Irish immigrants back in the day. They took a lot of crap from other schools because of it (especially Big 10 schools) Then, there is a story of an Irish freedom fighter having some connection/visit to Notre Dame back in the early 1900's. There was also an incident where a bunch of Notre Dame students fought back against the local Klan. Also, Notre Dame players having to overcome taunts and dirty play because of their Irish Catholic backgrounds. It's not a racist name at all. The student body took on the name as a sense of pride.
 

CoachHines3

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at what point does it stop?

raiders
chiefs
cowboys
vikings
buccaneers

i'm sure someone, somewhere would make an attempt and argue that these franchises change their name.