Terrence Lewis transferring

[quasistellar]

I think the exasperated reactions are more due to the fact we are having to turn over such a high percentage of our roster due to not being Big 12 caliber players. The recruiting misses, coupled with lack of development, are really starting to add up, and the transfer/JuCo landscape is such that you don't just get your pick of the litter any more.

So I don't think the exasperation is "how are we going to ever win without Grill/Griffin/Lewis" as much is it is a realization that our program is in a bad, bad place right now and it's an extreme liklihood that you can drum up the talent in one off season to make us relevant again. So the question becomes who is willing to sign up for a longer rebuild with a coach who has already had two historically bad season out of the last 3?

We're basically hitting critical mass with the combined recruiting misses and transfers out. There was hope early/mid season that Griffin and Lewis would somehow hit their potential as recruits, but either they were overrated or Prohm just can't develop players properly.

As for Grill, well, you can't develop players when they leave. . .

This is like 17-18 all over again, except without the CFH recruiting excuses. It's just straight up BAD and literally no way to spin any of it as positive.

 

[Statefan10]

This just seems to foo-foo the potential impact of having to completely redo a roster coming off a year where we lost 20 games. Again, people just act like you can go get high impact JuCos and transfers and it doesn't work like that.

Personally, I'm just think this sets us up for more "give him time" arguments going forward, which frankly I'm just over.

Okay so.. what was the alternative then for Steve lol. I'm honestly wondering. Not try and go after high impact guys? Keep Zion and Lewis and hope they figure it out?

 

[ISUKyro]

Can we just start a thread for who is still on the team, it may be easy to keep track of a smaller number of players

 

[Statefan10]

Haliburton, Jacobson, Nixon,Griffin, Lewis, Grill leaving, plus a lot of smoke on 1 more tomorrow.

Returning/bringing in Foster, Dubar, Blackwell (maybe), Johnson, Walker, Bolton, Conditt, Young, Jackson, and 4 walkons. Plus whoever we’re hoping to get here and minus one more of the returners. Yikes, that looks pretty bad to me.

Where is the smoke besides on here? Lol tell me who you think is gone

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

We're basically hitting critical mass with the combined recruiting misses and transfers out. There was hope early/mid season that Griffin and Lewis would somehow hit their potential as recruits, but either they were overrated or Prohm just can't develop players properly.

As for Grill, well, you can't develop players when they leave. . .

This is like 17-18 all over again, except without the CFH recruiting excuses. It's just straight up BAD and literally no way to spin any of it as positive.

IMO where Grill lands is going to be pretty telling. If he decides to go the mid major route then he probably felt like he couldn't cut it at the Big 12 level. I wouldn't be shocked if he lands at Wichita State, they just got gutted. As far as Lewis and Griffin go who cares, neither was cutting it.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

It’s not that good of class to keep someone for. I think he should get one year but this isn’t a class you keep someone for.

You walk away from that class and the set back is massive though.

 

[WastedTalent]

Better? We have 4 returning players. Conditt hasn't hit double figures for scoring since January 4, and only saw 20 minutes or more of playing time 3 times in 2020.

Solomon young has been so inconsistent he thought about transferring mid season. He didn't even play 20 minutes against the big 12 8 seed and had 0 points that game.

Jackson was scoreless in 9 games last year.

Bolton is our only sure thing.

Exactly. Which is why it's a good thing he's bringing in new guys. It's not likely that all newcomers will contribute, so hopefully a couple of them are good enough to make them better. How much better? I don't know, but it will likely decide Prohm's future at Iowa St.

 

[Cydkar]

IMO where Grill lands is going to be pretty telling. If he decides to go the mid major route then he probably felt like he couldn't cut it at the Big 12 level. I wouldn't be shocked if he lands at Wichita State, they just got gutted. As far as Lewis and Griffin go who cares, neither was cutting it.

From a talent satndpoint, none of the 3 are big losses. If they can miraculously be replaced with better talent, then we might have ourselves something.

 

[Clonefan32]

Okay so.. what was the alternative then for Steve lol. I'm honestly wondering. Not try and go after high impact guys? Keep Zion and Lewis and hope they figure it out?

Honestly I would say it would take a combination for him to be successful next year, and potentially beyond. I don't think you can turn a roster around like this and be successful. So in a perfect world I think Lewis leaves and Zion and Grill stayed and took big steps forward.

 

[rochclone]

Okay so.. what was the alternative then for Steve lol. I'm honestly wondering. Not try and go after high impact guys? Keep Zion and Lewis and hope they figure it out?

I think CSP is doing what he believes is necessary which is trying to cleanse the program of anyone that might not be able to play at the Big 12 level.
The problem is that sometimes those “cleansing” efforts have some unintended consequences of people leaving because they don’t like what they see is going on. I’m not going to kill him for the choices now being made however he is in this predicament because of the vast number of recruiting misses that have occurred.
It’s 4th and 25 and he is running 4 verticals against a Cover 4. Could it work out...sure but not likely.
The issue that I foresee is that this filling of 8-9 scholarships in one year will be used as a reason why he needs another year if we go 15-15 because “progress” has been made from 12-20. If that happens then I think JP loses a majority of this fanbase until a change is made. We will see....it definitely will make the Spring more entertaining.

 

[rochclone]

You walk away from that class and the set back is massive though.

Of course it’s massive because we are leveraged up to 8-10 scholarships that might be open in one given year. But he’s the guy that got us leveraged into this situation to begin with.

 

[Statefan10]

I think CSP is doing what he believes is necessary which is trying to cleanse the program of anyone that might not be able to play at the Big 12 level.
The problem is that sometimes those “cleansing” efforts have some unintended consequences of people leaving because they don’t like what they see is going on. I’m not going to kill him for the choices now being made however he is in this predicament because of the vast number of recruiting misses that have occurred.
It’s 4th and 25 and he is running 4 verticals against a Cover 4. Could it work out...sure but not likely.
The issue that I foresee is that this filling of 8-9 scholarships in one year will be used as a reason why he needs another year if we go 15-15 because “progress” has been made from 12-20. If that happens then I think JP loses a majority of this fanbase until a change is made. We will see....it definitely will make the Spring more entertaining.

I'm in agreement. If next year isn't drastically different his time is up.

 

[Statefan10]

Honestly I would say it would take a combination for him to be successful next year, and potentially beyond. I don't think you can turn a roster around like this and be successful. So in a perfect world I think Lewis leaves and Zion and Grill stayed and took big steps forward.

I'm not accusing you of switching stances but this sort of mentality was completely different than how people were feeling during the season. People were screaming that Prohm didn't have Big 12 ready guys and how he needed to make a change and Steve just did that.

I would rather take a chance of finding capable guys, having it not work out, and then Steve get fired rather than Steve do nothing, put out the same s*** as last year, and him getting fired.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I'm in agreement. If next year isn't drastically different his time is up.

@Kurttr had a good post along these lines earlier.

I actually do not detect a ton of disagreement or argumentation on here right now.

Some people are -- quite justifiably -- just done right now. Others of us have low expectations, but the call is ultimately Pollard, and it seems Pollard says Prohm is going to get one more year to fix it, so we are along for the ride.

If it isn't substantially improved next year, it's a Rhoads situation.

 

[RustShack]

He’s had some misses like anyone, but he’s had some hits. Wigginton, Jackson, THT, Shayock, Halliburton, ect. His biggest problem this year was that he “hit too big” with some of those recruits and they left.

I was slightly encouraged that he recruited over Anderson and Leech before the season even started... that’s more of a big program move than your normal Iowa State move.

Of course we are going to have some filler on the roster. Not everyone can play and good recruits aren’t flocking to sit on Iowa States bench. This year is a bit extreme for players leaving, but I’m not mad that we are cleaning house after 20 losses.

I’m assuming they have some plans for their scholarships.

 

[Statefan10]

@Kurttr had a good post along these lines earlier.

I actually do not detect a ton of disagreement or argumentation on here right now.

Some people are -- quite justifiably -- just done right now. Others of us have low expectations, but the call is ultimately Pollard, and it seems Pollard says Prohm is going to get one more year to fix it, so we are along for the ride.

If it isn't substantially improved next year, it's a Rhoads situation.

Yup. I'd be surprised if Jamie hasn't learned from the Rhoads situation. He's probably giving Prohm another year, just as I probably would, but next year is for all the marbles. Improve drastically and you're still the headcoach. Stay the same or God forbid get worse, welp, onto someone else.

 

[Drew0311]

IMO where Grill lands is going to be pretty telling. If he decides to go the mid major route then he probably felt like he couldn't cut it at the Big 12 level. I wouldn't be shocked if he lands at Wichita State, they just got gutted. As far as Lewis and Griffin go who cares, neither was cutting it.

Agree. I bet UNLV might be the spot for him. Not power 5 but not really mid major either.

 

[Jeffrey Scott]

If I was doing Prohm's evaluation I would like to hear his responses to these points. No coach speak allowed.

• An 18-36 conference record (I haven't done an updated count)
• This year's Hilton results
• First 20 loss season in 40 some years
• Significant number of recruits leaving after one or two years
• What to expect with freshmen coming in next year
• Where do you see the program in 5 years

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

He’s had some misses like anyone, but he’s had some hits. Wigginton, Jackson, THT, Shayock, Halliburton, ect. His biggest problem this year was that he “hit too big” with some of those recruits and they left.

I was slightly encouraged that he recruited over Anderson and Leech before the season even started... that’s more of a big program move than your normal Iowa State move.

Of course we are going to have some filler on the roster. Not everyone can play and good recruits aren’t flocking to sit on Iowa States bench. This year is a bit extreme for players leaving, but I’m not mad that we are cleaning house after 20 losses.

I’m assuming they have some plans for their scholarships.

"Some" misses?

 

[BryceC]

You walk away from that class and the set back is massive though.

That's assuming more than one of them are here after next year.