Hilton renovations going before the BoR next week

[Sigmapolis]

Theyre misleading because they dont include a lot of factors including people working at jobs that want degrees but not necessarily their specific major

Employers looking for generic degrees, rather than wanting specific majors or coursework related to the job, only makes my point for me. Education is a way to easily "sort" people on the labor market -- it distributes the zero-sum of opportunities.

I think even the ~60% of jobs requiring a degree overstates that number. Even most people with a job nominally related to their major have to do tremendous amounts of learning at the job itself before they gain any competence at actually doing it.

and also don't factor in the fact that a well-rounded education prepares one much more for changes in the workforce (as opposed to being pidgeonholed into say a coal job that leaves you ****** if that disappears)

A friend/former roommate of mine has a BS from a nice school in Massachusetts... and answers the phone and email inbox at a car dealership for a living.

Maybe if we did not make it so you have to have ridiculous degree requirements for basic jobs, then people with modest educations would have more opportunities, instead of as you aptly putting it selling their bodies out in the West Virginia coal mines.

Yeah, i guess we should just cancel high school education too then.

Basic literacy and numeracy are vital to function in our society. Period. But the teaching of the same ends somewhere between 6th and 8th grade.

I would rather convert high school to vocational training instead of forcing kids to finish rather unnecessary college prep courses for the most of them.

I mean, if you want to go beyond 8th grade for your own benefit, you should pay for it. Seems crazy now, but there was a time plenty of people weren't going to high school too.

There was a time when people with modest educations, who did not spend huge amounts of time and money (of their own and of the public), had more opportunities, too.

The credential rat-race and these facts have something to do with each other.

An educated society is a better society. Period. Its amazing people can't gras

Define "better?" This strikes me as somewhat elitist.

Higher education, to me, has four functions...

(1.) Ensuring you (or your kids) are given the good opportunities and job offers (as opposed to somebody else who did not get the degree or into the right schools).

(2.) As a demonstration of social status and class, a luxury good much like a country estate, establishing your position on the social totem pole and ensuring you can demonstrate you belong to that educated, credential coterie at the top of society.

(3.) Glorified babysitting and/or something that weird nerds like me enjoy as a consumption item, the same way normal people would enjoy a weekend in Las Vegas.

(4.) And yes, relevant job training for a select number of careers, maybe not much at the undergraduate level, but definitely in postgraduate/professional programs.

#1 and #2 are zero-sum. #3 is a consumption item, not an investment. #4 is an investment, but relatively little of higher education has to do with it.

 

[BCClone]

What is misleading about them? The market is oversupplied. When supply is roughly double demand, you should back off production, not try to ramp it up.

We seemed to agree that building out US-20 with four-lanes was creating useless capacity at huge expense, no? Those extra lanes are useless supply. We both believe that using public funds to create something of marginal productivity is a bad idea.

We have a different context here, but the idea is the same.

College can (and often does) pay off very handsomely for individuals. It certainly did for me. My master's got me a good first job and I have been riding it ever since. Plenty of individuals will benefit from the extra lanes on 20, but that does not mean a net social benefit.

Your "opportunities" are zero-sum, however. If Jane goes to college and gets a job that would have went to Mary otherwise, then Jane's benefit comes at Mary's expense, Jane used up a lot of time and effort, and the public fisc paid the bill for no net gains.

If I want to roll the dice to get ahead, that is my business, but subsidizing opportunities for some at the expense of others is a waste of public funds.

I’ve said for awhile that you can make bachelors into 3 years by cutting a lot of crap out of it. The well rounded BS......I haven’t really seen it help people I know except when they play trivia games. I learned more diversity talking to those around me than any class. Especially the ones where they tell you the only right opinion is their opinion.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

What is misleading about them? The market is oversupplied. When supply is roughly double demand, you should back off production, not try to ramp it up.

We seemed to agree that building out US-20 with four-lanes was creating useless capacity at huge expense, no? Those extra lanes are useless supply. We both believe that using public funds to create something of marginal productivity is a bad idea.

We have a different context here, but the idea is the same.

College can (and often does) pay off very handsomely for individuals. It certainly did for me. My master's got me a good first job and I have been riding it ever since. Plenty of individuals will benefit from the extra lanes on 20, but that does not mean a net social benefit.

Your "opportunities" are zero-sum, however. If Jane goes to college and gets a job that would have went to Mary otherwise, then Jane's benefit comes at Mary's expense, Jane used up a lot of time and effort, and the public fisc paid the bill for no net gains.

If I want to roll the dice to get ahead, that is my business, but subsidizing opportunities for some at the expense of others is a waste of public funds.

Give it a rest. It's completely off-topic.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Assuming those stats do indicate excess supply, which isn’t necessarily true, it’s possible state funding cuts of public colleges has contributed to the oversupply. Schools looking to keep deficits static, let alone increase to modernize, may resort to economies of scale. Plus a lot of longterm infrastructure was built assuming better funding, and that only gets worse with decreasing student population. And yes, you can find fluffy papers claiming schools lose money on students.

How would they not?

Quantity demanded is roughly half quantity supplied, even under a generous interpretation of degrees being "required" for a job. One can take an economics or finance degree related to a job as a stockbroker, though the realities of doing that job day-to-day are going to be very far removed from what they saw on a white board at university.

The college-educated workforce includes people from their 20s through their 60s if not into their 70s. I doubt recent cuts to state support for public universities are enough to much change the numbers I cite if only because it takes decades, if not close to half of a century, for that population to turn itself over with natural human aging.

A person turning 65 this year would have graduated at 21 in 1975.

 

[Ms3r4ISU]

Concessions definitely could use and upgrade. We're spoiled with all the new option at Jack Trice now but it's sad that all you basically have to choose from for a quick supper for a 6pm game is an over-priced hot dog, nachos, or walking taco as everything else offered is basically snack food. Like someone else said, just adding something like a chicken fingers basket couldn't be too hard to do. I'd even go for some pizza or pre-made hot or cold sandwich options too. Just something that is somewhat filling when you rushed to Ames straight from work and are hungry.

The 2 main entrances are long overdue for some improvements too. I seem to recall there was a long term plan many years ago that included the possibility of adding some suites and premium seating on the north side and am surprised that hasn't been brought back to the table by now. I don't think Hilton needs a major overhaul but sounds like this proposal is a step in the right direction to make some much needed updates and changes.

HyVee used to offer pizza and sandwiches. We really miss the pizza, although those big slices were kind of hard to eat neatly.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

HyVee used to offer pizza and sandwiches. We really miss the pizza, although those big slices were kind of hard to eat neatly.

I think they have more interesting food options on the east and north sides. We come in the south doors and turn left. And we're kind of lazy, so if we hit the concession stands it's usually a walking taco or a stadium dog for a meal, a pretzel or some popcorn for a snack. Maybe I need to expand my horizons!

 

[FinalFourCy]

How would they not?

Quantity demanded is roughly half quantity supplied, even under a generous interpretation of degrees being "required" for a job. One can take an economics or finance degree related to a job as a stockbroker, though the realities of doing that job day-to-day are going to be very far removed from what they saw on a white board at university.

The college-educated workforce includes people from their 20s through their 60s if not into their 70s. I doubt recent cuts to state support for public universities are enough to much change the numbers I cite if only because it takes decades, if not close to half of a century, for that population to turn itself over with natural human aging.

A person turning 65 this year would have graduated at 21 in 1975.

The statement that X% work jobs not requiring their degree is subjective, arbitrary, and general. It isn’t sufficient to say there’s an oversupply of college graduates. It suggests a college degree gives you optionality. Could there be an oversupply? Sure, but your statements didn’t support that.

I’m not sure what you’re responding to on the second part. Workforce age had nothing to do with my point that budgets can be slashed relatively quickly, and that causes problems that would drive schools to need more undergraduates. You started this by responding to the comment of more public funding not being needed due to too much supply. A lack of funding may be driving that increase in supply.

But since you brought up older workers, the slow turnover would help lead to your numbers, and doesn’t suggest oversupply as much as modernization. Not many AI/computer science majors in our parents generation.

 

[VeloClone]

My high school (70's) had a scoreboard on the wall (like the one shown earlier), but with sides that came down (using ropes and pulleys) so they could use single letter pieces to spell out players names for both teams. We were big time!

I had forgotten about that. My high school had that as well. I must admit I thought it was pretty cool the first time as a freshman I saw my name up there.

 

[Sigmapolis]

The statement that X% work jobs not requiring their degree is subjective, arbitrary, and general. It isn’t sufficient to say there’s an oversupply of college graduates. It suggests a college degree gives you optionality. Could there be an oversupply? Sure, but your statements didn’t support that.

I’m not sure what you’re responding to on the second part. Workforce age had nothing to do with my point that budgets can be slashed relatively quickly, and that causes problems that would drive schools to need more undergraduates. You started this by responding to the comment of more public funding not being needed due to too much supply. A lack of funding may be driving that increase in supply.

But since you brought up older workers, the slow turnover would help lead to your numbers, and doesn’t suggest oversupply as much as modernization. Not many AI/computer science majors in our parents generation.

This is not my statement. This is from the New York Fed.

To quote the original source...

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research...llege-labor-market_underemployment_rates.html

Notes: The underemployment rate is defined as the share of graduates working in jobs that typically do not require a college degree. A job is classified as a college job if 50 percent or more of the people working in that job indicate that at least a bachelor’s degree is necessary; otherwise, the job is classified as a non-college job.

The bias here is for these numbers to be too high -- people are going to be more likely to overstate the educational requirements of a job rather than understating them. How many people with college degrees are going to be keen to say that their job does not require one when you ask them and let them decide for you how to rate things?

The social desirability is to overstate your status, not to minimize it.

I think your idea in your second paragraph that reducing public funding for post-secondary education kind of flies in the face of the general reason people want the state of Iowa (or any other state or the federal government) to subsidize education -- to them, it improves the quality of that education and/or brings more students in the fold.

You basically said the cuts bring more students into the fold. Less money means... more students? Do you really believe that idea? That reduced public support, which leads to higher tuition and out-of-pocket costs, brings more students into the fold rather than driving them out with higher prices? If you really believe that, then you kind of have an absurd outcome where the best thing to do would be for the states to keep reducing public funding for education because it would lead to more and more students being able to access its wonders.

There are not a lot of AI/computer science majors now, for that matter. Computers have made jobs less cognitively and computationally demanding for the vast majority of workers, actually, not more. No need to memorize things as much when Wikipedia exists, and being a cashier now is way easier than it was in 1950 without so much as a calculator.

 

[VeloClone]

Always find it funny that we have to ask The Board of Shysters if we can spend our own money on our own improvements.

I learned something interesting today about the University of Minnesota. They have to answer to the Board of Regents but the Board and the University are independent from the Legislature. They get some funding but do not have to answer to the State government in any way. Why? The University actually was formed (1851) 7 years before Minnesota was a state (1858). So when the state constitution was written it had the Executive Branch, the Legislative Branch, the Judicial Branch and the University written into it as independent constitutional entities.

Cool story, Bro...

 

[VeloClone]

There are a lot of jobs that don't require a college degree however you can get the job with less experience in that field if you have a degree than if you don't.

My job asks for a degree but I don't need my degree for the job. The job isn't in my degree field but they want you to have a degree.

 

[VeloClone]

I'm appalled that someone referred to a walking taco as simply "snack food".

 

[Dr.bannedman]

53-48? You had to put a Big 10 scoreboard on here?

thats actually a western ia 6 ot game

 

[ImJustKCClone]

I'm appalled that someone referred to a walking taco as simply "snack food".

If you're talking about me, reading comprehension 101, bubba!

 

[Sigmapolis]

There are a lot of jobs that don't require a college degree however you can get the job with less experience in that field if you have a degree than if you don't.

My job asks for a degree but I don't need my degree for the job. The job isn't in my degree field but they want you to have a degree.

So the public spends a bunch of money and you spend a bunch of time/money getting a degree for an opportunity that necessarily comes from somebody else.

The degree that you have does not add to your actual productivity as a worker.

Virtually no social benefit, lots of social cost.

Sounds like a bad social investment.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

So the public spends a bunch of money and you spend a bunch of time/money getting a degree for an opportunity that necessarily comes from somebody else.

The degree that you have does not add to your actual productivity as a worker.

Virtually no social benefit, lots of social cost.

Sounds like a bad social investment.

Maybe just maybe the employer finds productive value in the employees they find with a degree (the whole well rounded part that makes up half the degree) regardless of major.

Again, with your thinking we shouldnt fund high school.

Most people don't need calculus or even much math beyond basic algebra either to live their daily lives\do their jobs. Or half the stuff we did in HS english classes when we spent a large portion of time analyzing literature. Or most of the history we learned, that clearly has no effects on most of our productivity as workers (as if adding cogs in the machine is the only benefit society could ever achieve). But we do all these things, and almost universally agree that it is a good thing we provide kids with this kind of rounded education.

 

[JP4CY]

A beer station or thirty wouldn’t hurt, just sayin.

 

[CySmurf]

New lighting?

This.

 

[CYdTracked]

I'm appalled that someone referred to a walking taco as simply "snack food".

I didnt call it a snack food, I mentioned other than that and like 2 or 3 other items everything else they sell is snack food.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

This is not my statement. This is from the New York Fed.

To quote the original source...

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research...llege-labor-market_underemployment_rates.html

Notes: The underemployment rate is defined as the share of graduates working in jobs that typically do not require a college degree. A job is classified as a college job if 50 percent or more of the people working in that job indicate that at least a bachelor’s degree is necessary; otherwise, the job is classified as a non-college job.

The bias here is for these numbers to be too high -- people are going to be more likely to overstate the educational requirements of a job rather than understating them. How many people with college degrees are going to be keen to say that their job does not require one when you ask them and let them decide for you how to rate things?

The social desirability is to overstate your status, not to minimize it.

I think your idea in your second paragraph that reducing public funding for post-secondary education kind of flies in the face of the general reason people want the state of Iowa (or any other state or the federal government) to subsidize education -- to them, it improves the quality of that education and/or brings more students in the fold.

You basically said the cuts bring more students into the fold. Less money means... more students? Do you really believe that idea? That reduced public support, which leads to higher tuition and out-of-pocket costs, brings more students into the fold rather than driving them out with higher prices? If you really believe that, then you kind of have an absurd outcome where the best thing to do would be for the states to keep reducing public funding for education because it would lead to more and more students being able to access its wonders.

There are not a lot of AI/computer science majors now, for that matter. Computers have made jobs less cognitively and computationally demanding for the vast majority of workers, actually, not more. No need to memorize things as much when Wikipedia exists, and being a cashier now is way easier than it was in 1950 without so much as a calculator.

Dude.
Just.
Stop.