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Quarterback Position Reopens

Re: 3rd string QB

Having said that, it would be nice to have a QB that can win the game for us. Jantz has the potential, but he is too busy losing the game for us to let us reflect on his brilliant plays.
 
jdoggivjc said:
The bottom line is, to win in the Big 12, you need consistent, competent QB play, WRs who don't drop catchable passes, and and an OL that both protects the QB and opens up holes for the running game. ISU just doesn't have any of that.
Click to expand...

KSU went to bringing an extra guy into the box when it became clear we weren't going to beat them straight up in the run game. That extra man provides so much pressure and we couldn't respond with any consistency. We had way too many makeable plays in the pass game but 3/4 of the time the pass was off and then we had a number of WR plays that needed to be made but were not.

I credit KSU for a lot of it, and I think on the whole they were the better team. The difference in QB play was STARK as was the difference in OL play.

Proud as heck of the defense for playing 42 minutes and doing what they did. They played well enough to win. Offense did not.

End of story.
 
The QB should take some blame with a ineffective zone read running game. The decision of who get the ball is his based on his reads? I do agree that the running game has to improve to take pressure of the QB in the passing game.

Then you can make the accuracy issues an argument. I remember CPR making improved accuracy a point in spring ball as well. Say all you want but JBs accuracy went in the tank at the time when it was needed the most.

Just a comparison for 2012 to date (today's game not included)


[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: left"] PASSING [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] GP-GS [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Effic [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] Cmp-Att-Int [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Pct [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Yards [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] TD [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Long [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Avg/G [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Jantz, Steele [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 5-4 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 127.3 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 85-127-7 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 66.9 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 804 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 43 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 160.8 [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Barnett, Jared [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 3-1 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 132.9 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 16-30-2 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 53.3 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 214 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 74 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 71.3
[/TD]

2011's stats

[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: left"] PASSING [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] GP-GS [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Effic [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] Cmp-Att-Int [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Pct [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Yards [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] TD [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Long [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Avg/G [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Jantz, Steele [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9-7 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 106.8 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 138-259-11 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 53.3 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1519 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 10 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 57 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 168.8 [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Barnett, Jared [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9-6 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 99.4 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 110-220-6 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 50.0 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1201 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 6 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 38 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 133 [/TD]

I am not going to call for any QB changes as that is CPR's job, but after today the 16 for 36 performance JBs % is down to 48.5 for the season. Granted thats two full games and part of a third but this is an issue that has to be addressed if we expect to turn the corner as a program.
 
atlantacyclone said:
Well, one turnover is still the key stat. It was a bad one. He missed a couple of plays. All in all JB doesn't LOSE the game for us. That might be what we need now.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I have to disagree there... JB lost that game, I love how it was cool to do the finger pointing at jantz and now when barnett blows its all ok and not his fault, and I'm aware of the difference between turnovers and incompletions... But 16-37 passing will NEVER win us a big 12 game...
 
I've said it before, but until one of these guys totally steps up, I think we should play with multiple QBs to take advantage of whoevers a better matchup.
 
I wouldn't have been against putting Jantz in on the last drive when the game is on the line. He might make mistakes but at that point its do or die. He probably has the best ability to go out there and TAKE the win IMO. But JB clearly keeps us from losing games as well.
 
isufanz1 said:
Why in year four is this the best the clones have to offer? That is the real problem.
Click to expand...

This. A thousand times this. So frustrating to watch all these BCS teams with nice offenses and we look like an FCS team in the passing game (with the possible exception of Brun emerging at TE). Between the play calling, scheming and lack of recruiting skill guys, I'm pretty well in the "hate" category for Tom Herman.
 
Make all the arguments you want about who is the better QB, but based on history Jantz seems to be a better "clutch" QB even if his mistakes put the team in that situation in the first place. JB was very un-clutch when it mattered today. In a perfect world we would not be in that position in the first place but ISU is not going to blow out any Big 12 team until we get more overall consistent play out of the QB position.

Speaking of offense why no rollouts and such just to move the launch point for JB? He had way too many balls batted down at the line.
 
BoxsterCy said:
Yup, we are sorta screwed here and it's not like someone is suddenly going to be awesome (unless they sell their soul to the devil like Bill Snyder has).
:sad:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm done posting in this thread, because I don't think Jantz is the answer either. We have JB because Steele is 0-5 against Big12 teams and doesn't have what it takes between the ears to be a BCS caliber QB. JB just doesn't quite have the pass game to beat the top 3-4 teams in the conference, but manages the game pretty well and makes better decisions. We're not going to make a change to Jantz.
 
1. Sam Richardson time

2. Steele Jantz = sucks but comes up clutch when it is needed. Northern Iowa and Iowa are examples last year.

When in the situation we were in, the last two drives should've been Steele Jantz
 
cycloneace55 said:
The QB should take some blame with a ineffective zone read running game. The decision of who get the ball is his based on his reads? I do agree that the running game has to improve to take pressure of the QB in the passing game.

Then you can make the accuracy issues an argument. I remember CPR making improved accuracy a point in spring ball as well. Say all you want but JBs accuracy went in the tank at the time when it was needed the most.

Just a comparison for 2012 to date (today's game not included)


[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: left"] PASSING [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] GP-GS [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Effic [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] Cmp-Att-Int [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Pct [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Yards [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] TD [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Long [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Avg/G [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Jantz, Steele [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 5-4 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 127.3 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 85-127-7 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 66.9 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 804 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 7 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 43 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 160.8 [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Barnett, Jared [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 3-1 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 132.9 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 16-30-2 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 53.3 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 214 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 3 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 74 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 71.3
[/TD]

2011's stats

[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: left"] PASSING [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] GP-GS [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Effic [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: center"] Cmp-Att-Int [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Pct [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Yards [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] TD [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Long [/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #00008b, align: right"] Avg/G [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Jantz, Steele [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9-7 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 106.8 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 138-259-11 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 53.3 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1519 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 10 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 57 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 168.8 [/TD]

[TD="align: left"] Barnett, Jared [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 9-6 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 99.4 [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] 110-220-6 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 50.0 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 1201 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 6 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 38 [/TD]
[TD="align: right"] 133 [/TD]

I am not going to call for any QB changes as that is CPR's job, but after today the 16 for 36 performance JBs % is down to 48.5 for the season. Granted thats two full games and part of a third but this is an issue that has to be addressed if we expect to turn the corner as a program.
Click to expand...

Steel Jantz could have a 90% accuracy rate, but he would still throw interceptions at the worst possible times as well as fumble the ball away. Accuracy is great, but I'd rather have a QB who takes care of the ball and doesn't knock us out of games with numerous turnovers. I also don't think it is a fair representation to compare Jantz's stats from the non-conference schedule to JB's stats against Big 12 teams. I am pretty sure that none of Tech, TCU, nor purple kansas are shaking in their boots at the thought of playing such defenses as Tulsa, Iowa, and Western Illinois.

The zone read is difficult to run if the defense is focusing on that aspect of the offense and our playcaller does not mix things up to make them pay for it. We scored a TD with an impressive drive when the defense wasn't sure when the zone read was coming.

I agree that QB play needs to improve for us and hopefully JB will improve quickly. With that said, I am still sticking with Barnett even though his accuracy (mostly against Big 12 D's) is slightly lower than Jantz's (against mostly non-Big 12 D's).
 
PhillipJCY said:
Steel Jantz could have a 90% accuracy rate, but he would still throw interceptions at the worst possible times as well as fumble the ball away. Accuracy is great, but I'd rather have a QB who takes care of the ball and doesn't knock us out of games with numerous turnovers. I also don't think it is a fair representation to compare Jantz's stats from the non-conference schedule to JB's stats against Big 12 teams. I am pretty sure that none of Tech, TCU, nor purple kansas are shaking in their boots at the thought of playing such defenses as Tulsa, Iowa, and Western Illinois.

The zone read is difficult to run if the defense is focusing on that aspect of the offense and our playcaller does not mix things up to make them pay for it. We scored a TD with an impressive drive when the defense wasn't sure when the zone read was coming.

I agree that QB play needs to improve for us and hopefully JB will improve quickly. With that said, I am still sticking with Barnett even though his accuracy (mostly against Big 12 D's) is slightly lower than Jantz's (against mostly non-Big 12 D's).
Click to expand...

Jantz may not be the answer, but the differences in accuracy this season between he and JB are not SLIGHT. They are significant.
 
Even when he completes passes some of them are terrible. Chris Young had a step on his defender on a crossing pattern today and the throw was behind him and he got crushed as soon as he caught it from behind. That pass HAS to be out front.

I realize JB is trying to take care of the ball and not do anything risky, but throwing it at the ankles of receivers has to stop.

The good takeaway from the game today: First time in awhile I can remember us not fumbling.
 
I think we all agree that our choices are not ideal. I'm hopeful that the -13% difference in accuracy will even out over the course of the season. That is assuming JB doesn't have another awful accuracy game next week and gets pulled for Jantz. It will maybe be time to hit the panic button for the season if that does happen.
 
The problem is they both suck. Niether of them really give us an advantage. Anyone thinking either of them is mediocre is kidding themselves, niether of them are D1 starting QBs. They just aren't.

Props to the D. If our O was as good as our D, we would be undefeated and ranked 12 in the next poll.
 
JB didnt lose the game for us, he just couldnt win it when he had the chance. The D was solid today but they had so many opportunities to stop drives on 3rd down and didnt.
 
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