The Johnston failed venture thing was a shady/crooked developer. I'm beginning to learn that a lot of these real estate developers are snakes.
Youth sports business - viewed by Michael Lewis
- Thread starter qwerty
- Start date
The two guys that run Ignit are the same dudes that were developing the Johnston site.
This is a key point. It also depends on sport. When I see people look at a football player that also plays other sports, that really isn't making the point. Value of training beyond strength and speed training in the offseason is pretty minimal, and the strength/speed stuff is happening with other sports as well. QBs are a different story, and sure there are 7 on 7 camps and all that, but going and playing another sport is as good or better. It just isn't a sport that requires incredible amounts of time building really specific skills.
The problem is the skill sports like basketball and baseball at a large school. If a kid wants to actually play in those sports at a 4A school, good luck. On those teams you might have like one rotation basketball guy that doesn't play club basketball but can still get on the court because he's just a stud athlete. Baseball maybe you've got a couple guys playing that aren't playing club ball on the decent HS teams.
I'll echo others that say do the parent-led volunteer approach and work with schools and cities to get practice locations. If you are in central Iowa, Des Moines is absolutely a hub of youth sports tournaments, and town, parent-led teams can absolutely participate. My kids did that type of route, and I coached until they were in HS. Once in HS, my kids did 3 years of the expensive clubs. They also did multiple sports through at least 8th grade, but ultimately went to one sport.
I will say that in both cases, the club coaches and experiences were great. My oldest didn't play in college as she had injury problems. But it was the club coaches that stayed in contact, came to graduation, checked in after surgery, not the HS coaches. My youngest is going to play in college and it was the club coaches reaching out to colleges, providing videos and information, writing letters of recommendation, etc. not the HS coaches.
I would love for things to be like the days before when a kid could play multiple sports, have plenty of opportunities through school and town organizations, and still get on the field/court. That's not the case at a lot of schools anymore. The risks and problems highlighted in the story are real. But if the answer is to just not do these clubs, then the chances that a kid gets to actually participate and play in some sports at a lot of schools is minimal.
My advice is to do the parent and volunteer led approach as long as you can. Then I'd say if multiple sports are not viable due to time commitments, then encouraging other clubs or activities that are not sports. Things other than sports are a little easier to co-exist with a heavy sports schedule vs. another physically taxing, high intensity and heavily scheduled activity.
My father in law is a HOF HS coach long-retired, and old school. And he said the last thing he'd want kids to do is play tackle football before 7th grade, if not 8th grade. He said he actually could care less if they ever played any tackle football until they got to HS. Also knew someone on the Campbell staff years ago that said the same thing. Wouldn't let his kids play tackle until 8th I believe.
It is crazy. I remember as a kid wanting to go to Iowa State's summer football camp but my parents couldn't afford it (it was only a few hundred dollars), so I had to settle for the St Ambrose 7 on 7 camp.
It blows my mind now how much people spent on this stuff.
It blows my mind now how much people spent on this stuff.
I've had a lot of fun (and and some stress) navigating sports with kids. I'd say its 95% fun and 5% BS - and I'm lucky it worked out that way! And if you have the $$, plenty of hands are available to take it from you.
Growing up in central iowa a long time ago (the time everyone seems to be nostalgic for), I remember my parks and rec coaches were grad students at iowa state! I'm not sure parents today would be ok dropping off their kids at flag football practice with a couple of 24 yr olds.
And the best soccer coach was an Iranian immigrant who drove a black cargo van around the neighborhood to pick everyone up for practice lol - how would that fly today??
But today, I'm not sure there's a single sport for boys or girls that isn't considered crazy or competitive or expensive - that's just the way it is.
I do think people forget about genetics, which is still a major factor. The ex-NBA dad in my suburb? He's 6'10" (and was a guard). The D1 volleyball mom? She's 6'3. The D1 0-lineman? Still 300+ lbs haha. The 6th-grader who seems to be really good at everything - his dad was all-state at QB, starting PG in basketball, and won state Tennis. The D1 swimming parents? Both can crank out 500yd swims no problem in their 40s...and their daughter is in the olympic trials. Its amazing.
My advice? Have fun from ages 4-13. But then genetics takes over and you start to see what real talent looks like!
Growing up in central iowa a long time ago (the time everyone seems to be nostalgic for), I remember my parks and rec coaches were grad students at iowa state! I'm not sure parents today would be ok dropping off their kids at flag football practice with a couple of 24 yr olds.
And the best soccer coach was an Iranian immigrant who drove a black cargo van around the neighborhood to pick everyone up for practice lol - how would that fly today??
But today, I'm not sure there's a single sport for boys or girls that isn't considered crazy or competitive or expensive - that's just the way it is.
I do think people forget about genetics, which is still a major factor. The ex-NBA dad in my suburb? He's 6'10" (and was a guard). The D1 volleyball mom? She's 6'3. The D1 0-lineman? Still 300+ lbs haha. The 6th-grader who seems to be really good at everything - his dad was all-state at QB, starting PG in basketball, and won state Tennis. The D1 swimming parents? Both can crank out 500yd swims no problem in their 40s...and their daughter is in the olympic trials. Its amazing.
My advice? Have fun from ages 4-13. But then genetics takes over and you start to see what real talent looks like!
I also want to point out, if you are a parent coach, and your team wins a game, and you hoot and holler and jump around on the court and field like you won the lottery... you are a problem and I judge you very negatively.
Note my experience so far is kids 8 years and under which makes some peoples actions so damned hard to understand.
Note my experience so far is kids 8 years and under which makes some peoples actions so damned hard to understand.
From my experience with travel sports. Winning is equated to fun. Loosing is equated to bad coaching, my kids lack of playing time, finger pointing in general.
So curious question: I am a high school Track coach. I have 1 REALLY good athlete that has a performance coach. I don't know what the fee is this athlete pays, nor is it any of my business. The performance coach analyzes my athletes anaerobic and aerobic test and sends results with their suggestions on workouts to improve. We get along great, fantastic communication amongst each other. Both of us acknowledge and respect the role we have in this athletes development. Again, this athlete was good before but is really really improving to being top tier. Again, I'm sure there is a fee to the performance coach.......but does this all fall under the "Youth Sports Business?"
I haven’t read the whole thread yet. But I think most of the youth sport outrage is people who aren’t doing it, assuming that the families and kids don’t like it or can’t afford it. Could point and say the same thing about people that buy boats and go camping. Probably can’t afford that and guarantee the kids don’t always like it.
We don’t do competitive youth sports.
Some people do.
I do feel bad about HS sport participation though. Because for all the “don’t specialize” talk… specializing will make the average athlete better at that particular sport. And that takes a spot away from the average athlete that does multiple sports and band.
My kids probably aren’t good enough, nor have the competitive spirit, to play varsity in our large HS even with specialization. So I don’t worry about that much anymore either. We just rock the Y league.
We don’t do competitive youth sports.
Some people do.
I do feel bad about HS sport participation though. Because for all the “don’t specialize” talk… specializing will make the average athlete better at that particular sport. And that takes a spot away from the average athlete that does multiple sports and band.
My kids probably aren’t good enough, nor have the competitive spirit, to play varsity in our large HS even with specialization. So I don’t worry about that much anymore either. We just rock the Y league.
My grandson coaches an AAU volleyball team in St. Louis. It's been a journey as the parents critique pretty much every thing and every step. His frustration is the different skill levels as he has several really good players and several who probably should not be at that level. They travel every weekend and if they don't win parents continue to remind him what they are spending and they want results. Not if their daughter is improving but are they winning. He's really enjoys the actual volleyball but think this will be it for him.
It's just America. Everything is about sucking the money out of you.
Yep. Basically anything that can give a kid an edge that they can’t get from their high school team counts. Could be strength and condition, speed, skill development, you name it if it’s extra it counts.
Some of it is really good, some of it is awful and exploitive
The Ignit Johnston facility never got built. I suspect a big part of the issue with the Johnston facility was owners being under capitalized. The facility had been in works with city of Johnston pre-covid and construction costs have increased significantly over last 7 years.
A big issue with large privately owned rec facilities is facility usage. It can be chaos or crickets. The demand for court/ turf space is high between 5-9 pm. And there are also seasonal demand issues, busy in winter & quiet summer.
So it takes a pretty comprehensive approach to keep facility usage high to cover fixed costs.
I’ll cheer big time for the kids during the game, especially the ones that aren’t so good if they make a play or something. I’m essentially Bill Belichick after the game though.
Not judging, just curious on your thoughts for the end game here. Playing up 2 years will do exactly what for him? He’s 9, probably still needs to work on the fundamentals, right? I’m sorry, but this is part of the problem. Everyone thinks there kid is great and needs better competition and need to play in tournaments all over.
I’m just as guilty as the next guy as I go along with the crowd because “that’s just how it is now.” I miss the days of rec ball and kids playing against their friends in town on a week night. Love watching my kids complete but I also love boating on summer weekends or going fishing…. not being stuck at a ballpark every weekend.
I hate what youth sports has become.
Sorry Nate… not picking on you… just need to rant. I’ll shut up now.
Love the “no judging” followed immediately by “I’m sorry this is part of the problem” lol Zero shade and know you were just ranting but this made me laugh.
Playing up 2 years at that age is necessary because he’s obviously far ahead of kids his age for various reasons. If he stays in his age range he’s either going to get extremely bored, pick up bad habits, or sometimes even get other parents pissed at him.
Think of it like math, if you kid is nailing addition and subtraction, just immediately gets it do you force him to continue to do that for months/years with his peers or do you have them start leaning fractions, multiplication or division?
Same concept applies to sports.
My son played tackle football for the first time last year, 5th grade. We had been doing flex but they couldn't get enough to field a team again. I've been around a lot of youth sports but even I was surprised how much more toxic the coaching was. And then add in that 50% of those kids aren't ready for that kind of physicality week in and week out.
I had a kid on one of my teams that was scoring literally like 20 goals a game. He was so much bigger, faster, and better than the other kids it was bad for everybody.
Every kid on my team would just stand there on defense and wait for him to steal it. On offense, they’d just immediately pass to him. Just not any good for anybody.
I've coached all 3 of my kids in soccer since they were 3. Soccer was my sport and all my kids love it. But when he's playing travel up 2 years and is the best player on his team, I need to find a new team. I let him play Park and Rec indoor against his own grade and we have won 3 of our 4 games by 30+ goals. Literally 30 or more - the game is 40 minutes and no clock stoppage. I also know when to pull back - put him in the birth year above his for ODP and he was hesistant but still was offered a spot on the team. We declined as he was nervous of the competition.
End game I want my kids to be challenged in whatever they do and my wife and I work hard to keep them off screens and advance their skills. We do the same with academics which are obviously more important and it has paid off there as well, my 9yo skipped 3rd grade math and my 7yo is skipping 2nd. I would never skip a whole grade though, kids are only kids once.
I guess my endgame is to keep challenging them but let them have their fun too. But I can tell you sports aren't fun when you're way too good, or when your team sucks.
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