Williams & Blum Pod: Time to engage

[Sigmapolis]

Perhaps I went overboard with that. Looking back, more of what I meant (I think, very complex) is how somebody on the coast really has zero clue as to what we are all about. We don't get them either. It's like we are on two different planets. Having said that, I do believe that there are simpler folks in the midwest who will hear that and automatically make it political - coastal elites, leftists, (insert buzzword) etc., looking down on our way of life. Guaranteed.

I think the political differences are downstream of a cultural and economic divide.

There really are two dominant cultural threads in this country. There are some significant gray areas, but having lived in Washington, DC for some time after growing up in Boone, I have seen both worlds.

One is (to throw some adjectives together) --

Rural
Parochial and travels infrequently
Traditional
Conservative (small-c sense)
Religious
Less educated or educated at less-"prestigious" universities
Generally celebrates this country's accomplishments more than concentrating on its problems
Generally supports uniformed professions (cops, military, etc.)
Guns and trucks are everyday items with purposes
Reflects the social and cultural mores of the U.S. before roughly 1960
Mostly white, though this is changing... attracting upwardly-mobile Latinos and Asians
Works in industries either tied to the land (ag and natural resources) or physical things (manufacturers)
Wage workers or small-business owners
Government is generally either an impediment or the landlord

The other one is new, developing in the aftermath of the social upsets of the 1960s, the period of mass migration to the U.S. from 1980 to 2008, and with new digital technologies --

Urban
Cosmopolitan and travels frequently nationally and internationally
Functionally agnostic to atheist
Secular humanist
College educated (at least) if not graduate school at high-"prestige" universities
Not totally adverse to patriotism, but focuses more on this country's problems and past sins
Suspicious of uniformed professions
Travel frequently
Doesn't own a gun or oftentimes even a car/if so, a small one
Well-educated whites and a diverse ethnic coalition, but not as diverse as it thinks it is
Works in industries attached to manipulating information on a screen somehow
Mostly salaried
Lotta these people work in government or don't find it much bothersome (e.g., think how much regulation your average chemical manufacturer has to do with compared to a software company)

The political split just reflects these social/cultural and economic splits.

 

[quasistellar]

Yes, Florida is different. Don't get me wrong, winter weather in Ft Lauderdale was incredible but the people and the fraud? Yeesh.

I've been almost everywhere in the US except the west coast. I tell people all the time that most places/people aren't much different from Des Moines believe it or not--just bigger or smaller or different background scenery.

Except Miami. Miami sucks ass. It's just as gross as you think it is. And Manhattan has a unique feel from just being sooooo dense.

 

[GoldCy]

I think the political differences are downstream of a cultural and economic divide.

There really are two dominant cultural threads in this country. There are some significant gray areas, but having lived in Washington, DC for some time after growing up in Boone, I have seen both worlds.

One is (to throw some adjectives together) --

Rural
Parochial and travels infrequently
Traditional
Conservative (small-c sense)
Religious
Less educated or educated at less-"prestigious" universities
Generally celebrates this country's accomplishments more than concentrating on its problems
Generally supports uniformed professions (cops, military, etc.)
Guns and trucks are everyday items with purposes
Reflects the social and cultural mores of the U.S. before roughly 1960
Mostly white, though this is changing... attracting upwardly-mobile Latinos and Asians
Works in industries either tied to the land (ag and natural resources) or physical things (manufacturers)
Wage workers or small-business owners
Government is generally either an impediment or the landlord
Living in DC does not give you insight into urban areas. It gives you insight into the elite ruling class. Populations of Chicago, Detroit etc don't come close to your description.

The other one is new, developing in the aftermath of the social upsets of the 1960s, the period of mass migration to the U.S. from 1980 to 2008, and with new digital technologies --

Urban
Cosmopolitan and travels frequently nationally and internationally
Functionally agnostic to atheist
Secular humanist
College educated (at least) if not graduate school at high-"prestige" universities
Not totally adverse to patriotism, but focuses more on this country's problems and past sins
Suspicious of uniformed professions
Travel frequently
Doesn't own a gun or oftentimes even a car/if so, a small one
Well-educated whites and a diverse ethnic coalition, but not as diverse as it thinks it is
Works in industries attached to manipulating information on a screen somehow
Mostly salaried
Lotta these people work in government or don't find it much bothersome (e.g., think how much regulation your average chemical manufacturer has to do with compared to a software company)

The political split just reflects these social/cultural and economic splits.

Based on living in DC flaws your opinion of urban. DC is a reflection of the elitest ruling class.
Chicago, Detroit etc don't resemble your description.
Your condescending description of rural people are wrong and what the elite try to use justifying making decisions for them. There is no such thing as a dumb farmer in business today.
I am from urban Chicago area and respect the smarts of rural from experience. Not the way I thought when I came here.
Proud people here that don't count on handouts as a rule.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Based on living in DC flaws your opinion of urban. DC is a reflection of the elitest ruling class.
Chicago, Detroit etc don't resemble your description.
Your condescending description of rural people are wrong and what the elite try to use justifying making decisions for them. There is no such thing as a dumb farmer in business today.
I am from urban Chicago area and respect the smarts of rural from experience. Not the way I thought when I came here.
Proud people here that don't count on handouts as a rule.

To quote myself --

"There are some significant gray areas."

Thank you for articulating some of them -- the suburbs of the coastal megacities and the largest cities of the interior of the country, like Chicago, Dallas, and Houston, are some of them.

The rest of your message is a snotty attempt to put words in my mouth.

Show me where/how I called farmers "dumb." I'm an Iowa State graduate. I have immense respect for the profession. Did I say rural America is generally less educated than urban America? Yes, because it is, but that is not saying anything about somebody's intelligence, social value, or economic productivity. That is one of my least favorite things about the East Coast -- the labor market is dominated by credential inflation and the rat race around that phenomenon where people have to spend years and massive quantities of money to break into high-margin "prestige" industries like academia, finance, and consulting. I much prefer the midwestern mindset of "if you can do the job, I don't care where your degrees are from or if you even have one at all."

Trust me, I know a lotta "smart" people on the East Coast with gaudy degrees but no functional skills, and I know plenty of people back in Iowa with maybe a high school degree who can, to name a few things, keep a farm successfully going, fix vehicles, build and maintain houses, and all sorts of things.

I appreciate that growing food is a more useful task in the end than making pretty spreadsheets.

Seems you're on a hair trigger for a condescension that isn't even remotely there.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I've been almost everywhere in the US except the west coast. I tell people all the time that most places/people aren't much different from Des Moines believe it or not--just bigger or smaller or different background scenery.

Except Miami. Miami sucks ass. It's just as gross as you think it is. And Manhattan has a unique feel from just being sooooo dense.

Florida is so weird. Completely flat, like so flat it bothers you if you're not from there. The native white people are so hateful, it's staggering. Everyone is chasing the money that slops around from the super rich, very cut throat.

 

[GetAwesome]

Re: UCLA -vs- The Midwest

Those Bruin podcast bros fell for one of the three classic blunders:

1. Never get involved in a land war in Asia
2. Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line
3. Never fan the flames of a college sports debate when Blum is in the room

 

[JM4CY]

A lot of good perspectives in here.

All I have to offer is a work trip a while back to Fort Dodge.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Based on living in DC flaws your opinion of urban. DC is a reflection of the elitest ruling class.
Chicago, Detroit etc don't resemble your description.
Your condescending description of rural people are wrong and what the elite try to use justifying making decisions for them. There is no such thing as a dumb farmer in business today.
I am from urban Chicago area and respect the smarts of rural from experience. Not the way I thought when I came here.
Proud people here that don't count on handouts as a rule.

Good reply Goldcy.

I agree with you.

Sigma has lived in DC, but obviously wasn't talking about the poor parts and their education levels. Also, the poor parts and education levels of the residents of Boston, Baltimore, New York, Philly, Pittsburgh, LA, SF, Cleveland, Dallas, Houston, etc do not reflect his views/statements as he stated above.

It's like he has only exposed himself to rich, white, suburbs and the old blue blood neighborhoods of these metro areas.

 

[brentblum]

I agree with Trice. Blum's "elitist" comments are no better than the comments from bozos from BROCast. Both betray a lack of understanding. But Blum injects a bit of anger bordering on more negative emotions.

I'm far from angry about it. Just excitable about facts.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Perhaps I went overboard with that. Looking back, more of what I meant (I think, very complex) is how somebody on the coast really has zero clue as to what we are all about. We don't get them either. It's like we are on two different planets. Having said that, I do believe that there are simpler folks in the midwest who will hear that and automatically make it political - coastal elites, leftists, (insert buzzword) etc., looking down on our way of life. Guaranteed.

Substitute "different" for "divided" you are not explaining yourself and in no danger of having anyone make it political.

 

[carvers4math]

I’m still wondering how anyone even found out about a random podcast by UCLA types, but I didn’t listen to the CF one either. Just seems like a lot of arguing over something sort of small potatoes.

I also lived in DC and suburban Virginia. The people I worked most closely with were originally from Ames and Springfield, IL. The stereotypes of DC people in this thread do not reflect the people I knew and met. That was back in the day when I had a secretary who was a single mom and worked a second job on the weekends to support her kids. Didn’t meet anyone who was “elitist.” Will admit that for the most part, those folks cannot drive on snow.

The gist of this seems to be people annoyed by stereotypes who then throw out their own.

 

[CyberJJJ]

I think the political differences are downstream of a cultural and economic divide.

There really are two dominant cultural threads in this country. There are some significant gray areas, but having lived in Washington, DC for some time after growing up in Boone, I have seen both worlds.

One is (to throw some adjectives together) --

Rural Grew up on a farm outside a village of 212 people (which included pets I believe!) Live in DSM so I guess that is Urban. Have lived a few years in Johannesburg, South Africa as well as San Jose, Costa Rica
Parochial and travels infrequently - Oops, not me. I have lived abroad and had to add pages to my passport for visas. Just spent a couple of weeks in France and Spain this spring.
Traditional Hard to quantify so will leave it at that.
Conservative (small-c sense) fiscally conservative, but social more moderate
Religious Proudly guilty.
Less educated or educated at less-"prestigious" universities Undergrad degree and 2 yrs of grad school at ISU, but also two business school short courses at INSEAD business school in France.
Generally celebrates this country's accomplishments more than concentrating on its problems I am generally more of an optimist than a pessimist.
Generally supports uniformed professions (cops, military, etc.) I have spent tons of time in countries where they fear the police, and have driven many places where cops regularly tried to shake you down for bribes. I don't experience that here in Iowa.
Guns and trucks are everyday items with purposes True, but I have neither at my house.
Reflects the social and cultural mores of the U.S. before roughly 1960 Born in 1964 so not sure I can accurately comment on this.
Mostly white, though this is changing... attracting upwardly-mobile Latinos and Asians I am white, and that is not, to the best of my knowledge changing. However I am bilingual with Spanish and have a graduate emphasis in Latin American Studies. My daughter is tri-lingual.
Works in industries either tied to the land (ag and natural resources) or physical things (manufacturers) Squarely in the ag scene, but that is a job that has taken me around the world, working in >30 countries.
Wage workers or small-business owners No, not me.
Government is generally either an impediment or the landlord Have had lobby training.

The other one is new, developing in the aftermath of the social upsets of the 1960s, the period of mass migration to the U.S. from 1980 to 2008, and with new digital technologies --

Urban Me if you consider DSM urban.
Cosmopolitan and travels frequently nationally and internationally Yep, that is me.
Functionally agnostic to atheist Nope
Secular humanist Nope
College educated (at least) if not graduate school at high-"prestige" universities ISU was top 5 in the world in my major when I was there. INSEAD in France is fairly prestigious.
Not totally adverse to patriotism, but focuses more on this country's problems and past sins I am a learner. Love my country, but also read books like "White Rage" to continue to broaden my perspective.
Suspicious of uniformed professions Only if you count that I am at an age where I select my doctor based on the size of their fingers.
Travel frequently
Doesn't own a gun or oftentimes even a car/if so, a small one Have a car, even more than one. Have a gun but it is at my mothers house in a closet.
Well-educated whites and a diverse ethnic coalition, but not as diverse as it thinks it is
Works in industries attached to manipulating information on a screen somehow
Mostly salaried Guilty
Lotta these people work in government or don't find it much bothersome (e.g., think how much regulation your average chemical manufacturer has to do with compared to a software company)

The political split just reflects these social/cultural and economic splits. Does this split make me bi-polar?

 

[ruflosn]

Illinois and Iowa look very similar once you get outside of Chicago and it's suburbs.

Illinois is basically three states. Chicago, middle Illinois is just like Iowa, and then you have southern Illinois, which is no different than Kentucky. Illinois is only good for one thing and that is weed is legal.

 

[Gunnerclone]

All of these states/regions in states --

the northwest 2/3rds of Ohio
southern Michigan
northwestern Kentucky abutting the Ohio River
Indiana
Illinois
southern Wisconsin and Minnesota before they turn into northern Ontario forests
Iowa
Missouri north of I-70
a few counties into Kansas and Nebraska on the west bank of the Missouri River

...look about the same outside of cities.

Just corn and soy as far as the eye can see. Plop somebody down outside Columbus or outside Des Moines and they'd have a hard time figuring out how to tell the difference between the two.

Little known fact/things that people have embedded in their brains. DSM is FAR FAR FAR more topographically diverse than CBus. CBus is flat as a pancake except for a few very very small enclaves (the “ravines”). Now the difference is you go any direction for 30 minutes besides west out of CBus and it changes very rapidly to distinct hills/knobs/then eventually mountains obviously.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Little known fact/things that people have embedded in their brains. DSM is FAR FAR FAR more topographically diverse than CBus. CBus is flat as a pancake except for a few very very small enclaves (the “ravines”). Now the difference is you go any direction for 30 minutes besides west out of CBus and it changes very rapidly to distinct hills/knobs/then eventually mountains obviously.

Iowa has an undeserved reputation for being flat. It’s not Kansas or eastern Colorado. It’s gently rolling hills. Nothing like the Appalachian foothills you have in eastern Ohio, but very little if the state is flat like Topeka.

 

[Trice]

Based on living in DC flaws your opinion of urban. DC is a reflection of the elitest ruling class.
Chicago, Detroit etc don't resemble your description.
Your condescending description of rural people are wrong and what the elite try to use justifying making decisions for them. There is no such thing as a dumb farmer in business today.
I am from urban Chicago area and respect the smarts of rural from experience. Not the way I thought when I came here.
Proud people here that don't count on handouts as a rule.

Talk about a myth that's taken hold that just won't let go. Goodness gracious.

 

[qwerty]

A lot of good perspectives in here.

All I have to offer is a work trip a while back to Fort Dodge.

You elitist!

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Blum and Williams:

I finally listened to the podcast and niether of you owe an explanation or any further conversation for any of your comments on Sunday night. They were on target and justified.

There is one beef I had: I think both of you said these guys were smart in describing them........??? No way. If they are smart, then I will suggest they are highly ignorant and self absorbed to think they know what is best for someone they do not know. They discuss a human behavior that is barely worthy of a psych 101 topic because it is common sense. They insulted an entire group of people, and more specifically, the recruit and his family.

If you guys sounded like them you would have no follwers. They are buffoons.

Great podcast. Thank you.

 

[CycloneNorth]

We need to bring back the "Why Your Town Sucks" threads. I love reading the reactions on here.

 

[Nor'easter]

Which is why personally I have a hard time getting worked up when people act condescendingly toward Midwesterners as these guys did. We do the same thing in reverse. Looking forward to listening to the pod.

And the vast vast majority of people across the country aren't a holes. Probably a different story when you're talking about media personalities for "blue blood" schools. Also people in LA probably have an identity problem as they moved their from middle America. No one's actually from LA.

I'm sure they were exaggerating their doucheyness as well.