Why are there so many licenses in education?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mtowncyclone13, May 20, 2019.

  1. matclone

    matclone Well-Known Member

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    Your hypothetical isn't helpful in overcoming the evident need to license in certain professions, which I'm sure are based on an identifiable professional need more than a whim. If you want to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or a barber, or an electrician, or a teacher, you go to the appropriate schools or training, take tests, and pay a small fee to show the world you are qualified.
     
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  2. matclone

    matclone Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a teacher, but I know we have teachers on the board who could speak to this.
     
  3. mtowncyclone13

    mtowncyclone13 Well-Known Member

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    And I have never said remove all teacher licenses. Please quote me if you believe I have. What is the difference between someone with 15 years of teaching experience teaching 3rd grade and 4th grade? My wife would need a different license. How about teaching special ed in a classroom vs teaching special ed as a traveling teacher. Need a different license. Are you a natural leader with an eye for detail and the ability to communicate with everyone? Want to work in administration? Need a different license. Again, I am not saying let people off the street be a teacher. I am saying we should trust people who have education and experience to look at things with a fresh perspective. Why are you against that?
     
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  4. Cyclonepride

    Cyclonepride Thought Police
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    Creating barriers to entry is a great way to achieve a degree of job security.
     
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  5. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member
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    And it really slows anyone who needs a license from moving with demand. For instance, North Dakota had a huge influx of people but now they don't have enough of these people. If they also have strict license requirements they are hurting themselves from pulling qualified people from around the country.
     
  6. DurangoCy

    DurangoCy Well-Known Member

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    I had a physics teacher, who was a former engineer (failed career, I believe), so they just figured he could teach the material. He was terrrible, so I wish the had required a license where you couldn't be an idiot and teach HS level physics.
     
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  7. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    Per the 3rd vs. 4th grade thing, typically licenses for those are 'K-5' or '1-12' so there's some wiggle room. I would say it goes far beyond 'reading a script' and it's unfortunate people refer to that.

    There IS some BS in states having different requirements for licensing that are basically hoops to jump through if one moves from one state to another but I'd wonder if it's similar in other professions.
     
  8. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    #28 Sigmapolis, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    Abraham Lincoln spent less than 12 months in formal schooling his entire life.

    He became an attorney the old-fashioned way -- he started as an entry-level clerk in a law office, learned on the job, and eventually passed the bar exam. He never had anything resembling an undergraduate education, much less three years in law school.

    He did alright for himself.

    My wife is a doctor. She told me that maybe 1% of her undergraduate training and maybe 10% of her training from medical school is relevant to what she does on a daily basis. She actually learned how to be a doctor on the job during her residency, and she has long maintained her hospital rotations her third and fourth year of medical school did a lot more to prepare her for the real world of it than anything in the classroom in her first and second years.

    So what must be the point of all these hoops you have to jump through?

    Nailed in. So many of these are just a modern form of a medieval guild.

    Guilds of merchants and craft workers were formed in medieval Europe so that their members could benefit from mutual aid, production standards could be maintained, competition was reduced and, by acting collectively, a certain political influence could be achieved.

    https://www.ancient.eu/Medieval_Guilds/

    Do I think that doctors, nurses, teachers, and engineers should learn the rudiments of their profession before being unleashed on an unsuspecting public? Sure do.

    I am just not sure they really learn those in classrooms or during the licensing process. They probably learn it, like the most of us actually do, while doing it.
     
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  9. Cycsk

    Cycsk Well-Known Member
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    #29 Cycsk, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    Not a licensure story, but my wife (who has a teacher's license) was hired once-upon-a-time in a Chicago suburb and then unhired before she started when they recognized that she had a masters degree (in college and university student personnel) because it meant they had to pay her more. She was very well known and appreciated by administration as a "classroom mom," was recruited by the administration, and would have worked for "whatever" because it was more about serving the community, but nope, not allowed.
     
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  10. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member
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    I could probably find a few idiots out there teaching HS physics. A license isn't going to stop that from happening.
     
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  11. matclone

    matclone Well-Known Member

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    It's also a great way to maintain integrity in the profession, and to help prevent people from getting hurt or ripped off.
     
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  12. Jmarsh13

    Jmarsh13 Active Member

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    Engineering licenses are typically able to be obtained in other states by reciprocity. Send in an application with fee and paperwork that shows that you meet State X requirements and State Y will give you a license. Then it is keeping up with each states Cont. Education requirements to keep them current.

    California does require additional testing due to seismic loading for Structural Engineers and also because they are California...
     
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  13. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member
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    To the OP you might qualify for one of these exemptions. No idea how this works in practice but might be worth a shot.

    https://www.boee.iowa.gov/enter-teaching-profession-iowa

    Career and Technical Authorization. This route requires hours of experience to teach in career and technical fields (no degree required). 6000 experience hours (approximately three years) or 4000 experience hours (if the applicant also has a bachelor’s degree) are required. Applicants can begin teaching immediately, and short courses in basic pedagogy are completed online. This is a highly successful alternative program which fills a great need in Iowa including but not limited to areas such as construction, drafting, welding, mechanics, military, electricity, culinary, agriculture, engineering, technology, and many more.
     
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  14. Cyclones_R_GR8

    Cyclones_R_GR8 Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  15. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    Where are you seeing people need a different license between 3rd and 4th grade and special ed in the classroom vs. traveling? Never seen that specific of detail.
     
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  16. BCClone

    BCClone Well-Known Member

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    The worst part of the education license is the the requirement that you have to teach X years to be a Superintendent. In our school the Principals determine the basic education needs and the Sup will go strictly off financials. Dude doesn't understand financials very well because he went to school to be a PE teacher and his business background is weak, but they were limited in the candidates since it was a smaller school and rolled with him since he was considered local.
     
  17. Cycsk

    Cycsk Well-Known Member
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    In most fields, most people learn most of what they need to know on the job. So, why don't we organize higher education around jobs? It is because of a false notion of how college helps you "grow up into a mature citizen." Maybe once upon a time, but now the crisis of prolonged adolescence dominates the undergraduate experience (and I don't like the idea of wiping out the student loan debt that has been used to fund it).

    About the closest to "learning on the job" in formal higher education is coop education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_education

    Most online programs could be made so much better if they were structured to take advantage of learning opportunities for people who already have positions in their field, but alas, most online programs provide a similar abstract, impractical approach that tries to mimic the traditional instead of leveraging the reality that students are in the midst of real life learning communities.
     
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  18. Sigmapolis

    Sigmapolis Well-Known Member
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    My father-in-law did something like this in Florida.

    He went from an engineer (electrical engineering from Madison) to a high school calculus teacher with what amounted to a single summer course and boom, in the classroom.
     
  19. 3TrueFans

    3TrueFans Just a Man in the Middle
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    She would need a different certificate or endorsement, the license is the same. Teaching 1st graders is not the same as teaching high school subjects. Just like teaching just about anything isn't the same as teaching special ed.

    It sounds like your wife only has a PK-3 endorsement?
     
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  20. DurangoCy

    DurangoCy Well-Known Member

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    It would've stopped him.
     

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