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Discussion in 'Pro Sports' started by Dave19642006, Apr 2, 2009.
Of 4 teams to date who actually got the better deal
I think it comes down to these factors for Chicago... The Bears, who havent had a respectable quarterback in my 18 years of life that I can remember, finally do. And he is a pro-bowler who is 25 years old. Can't ask for much else there. Granted they give up two number 1 picks, a 3rd round pick, and Orton. Moving Orton is a good idea for this trade. May be a little awkward to have someone who thought he would be the starter riding the pine. Kyle worked hard and played hard and is hard not to respect, but Cutler is way ahead of him in potential and talent. Cutler will be somewhere he wants to be now as well (Raised in South Indiana and grew up a Bears fan). As far as the picks the Bears gave up. He are the Bears last 12 1st round picks: Chris Williams, Greg Olsen, Ced Benson, Tommie Harris, Michael Haynes, Rex Grossman, Marc Colombo, David Terell, Urlacher, McNown, Walt Harris, Rashaan Salaam. I'd say 6 of those were busts, 1 to be decided, 2 solid players, and three great picks. I like knowing they got a good player and not hoping for one. Finally, some of the underlying factors. One of the Bears draft picks last year Earl Bennett played with Cutler at Vandy and was his favorite target. Hopefully he can develop into a #2 and someone like Torry Holt can be a decent #1 for them, I know he's past his prime. Hester should be a #3 in my opinion. Remembering where to stand on punt return is a lot for him let alone an offensive playbook. Don't get me wrong he's great for running fly patterns and the occasional screen. Finally I know some people hate him, but I like to have a qb with a little swagger. I just hope his ego doesnt get on Urlacher & Co's nerves.
For me you have to look at how much you value the difference between Cutler and Orton. Is it two first round picks plus a 3rd for 5th? For me there is not that big of a gap. Don't get me wrong if I had my choice of the two its an obvious decision. But if you were to put NFL quarterbacks on a bell curve I see Cutler as an upper middle of the pack guy and Orton as a lower middle of the pack guy. As an aside I think some people get too excited about Cutler because he is now a pro-bowler. For me he is not a top 5 QB and is probably closer to 10th. This last year he was 16th in QB rating, admittedly I don't think it is anywhere near a perfect statistic and some ahead of him where not full timers ie Seneca. He had the second most INTs but 3rd most yards, both inflated due to the high number of attempts. And none of the stats take into account the difference in receives he will have and the risk due to having diabetes.
The Bears upgraded their QB who has nobody to throw to and will be running for his life. Not to mention the aging defense who will need to be rebuilt in the next few years without #1 picks. Yippie...
Also, I am somewhat assuming that the Broncos don't plan on Orton being their franchise QB. I see him being an adequate NFL QB until they have a young guy ready, most likely someone drafted in one of the next two years.
And yet most Bears fans think that they will now have the NFC North title handed to them on a silver platter. Nice try. I'm not saying this wasn't the right move for the Bears, because it was. But until the Bears bring in someone other than Hester for Cutler to throw to, give Cutler an offensive line that won't make him look like a domestic abuse victim, and create a new youth movement on the defense since it appears that they have more senior citizens than a "Grumpy Old Men" movie, then I'm still going to say "Advantage Vikings."
As I look at it more, I'm still really disappointed to not have Cutler, but I think we may get the best of this deal. Cutler could be big in Chicago, but their OLine is really suspect, and their receivers are terrible. Orton, hopefully, can play within the system that McDaniels is setting up, and the picks are going to be huge for the Broncos to hopefully pick up a solid LB or DL. The Chiefs get the *** end of the deal IMO. Cassel is a nobody thus far, he's had only one good season in a system that lends itself to successful QB's, and Vrabel is old, that's about it outta him.
I'd say the Bears finished 3rd in this race. I can't for the life of me see why they gave up so much for a guy that has a losing NFL record. Both Orton and Cassel have winning NFL records and have played in better divisions.
I guess I don't see the hate with Orton - sure, he isn't known for throwing a great long ball, but the guy is a very good possession QB who hits everything within his range very well. My opinion - put the guy in a West Coast offense that features an offensive line and a few talented receivers and watch him shine...
Chiefs with Cassel by a long shot. Stepped right in and did pretty well. Has a few good seasons of watching the best QB in the league.
Chiefs can't get much worse, thats gotta help.
Chargers getting the division handed to them.
Was there a question? I got distracted by the picture in your post...:smile:
Long-term: Broncos--IF the draft picks pan out
With the money save by not signing two first rounders, they can go get some receivers. I have always said that first round picks are bad, trade them away. You have to pay an unproven player a lot of money. Why not pay that money to a proven player????? I think the bears gave up too much. Why the third rounder??? But, I would rather pay cutler than two unproven players. Bears Fan bias? Probably.
My opinion, being a Broncos fan, is that I am happy and feel Denver got the better deal. Cutler has all the tools to be the best QB in the league, but he does not have the maturity. He is very childish and unprofessional. I am very happy with getting Orton, two #1 picks and a #3 pick. I feel Orton will fit McDaniel's system great. It is system similar to what Orton ran at Purdue and we all know how much success he had while in Purdue's system. I assume Denver will draft a young QB with one of their 1st round picks. I see it as a benefit for both teams with Denver getting the better deal.
As a Bears fan first and a Broncos fan second, I think both teams got a decent deal but I really think Denver is screwing up their team. It started with Shanahan getting dumped. I don't think that it's "childish and unprofessional" to be upset about your coach getting canned. I love seeing all of the Bears' haters in all these threads trying to pull out every little reason why this is going to be bad for Chicago. I can't believe how many are singing the praises of Orton. Did anyone see him miss Hester about 5 different times last year where he was 10 yards behind the defense but couldn't get the ball in his hands? If you really know and watch the Bears you can see that this is a slam dunk deal for Chicago.
There's always a guy in there that's worth the risk to change your franchise.
1. I never said this was going to be bad for Chicago. I just said don't expect to win the NFC North next year - the Bears problems are much more significant than just the QB position.
2. I never said I had a love affair with Orton either. But I've talked to many Bears fans that have said that he can hit the short-ranged pass like no other. Put him in an offense such as the West Coast and you may see him turn into a different QB.
3. I like this deal. I really do. But unless the Bears surround Cutler with talent, especially the offensive line and WR, there's nothing "Slam Dunk" about it.
I agree, the Bears aren't going to be magically transformed into a NFC favorite and Orton isn't too shabby on short balls. I don't understand where this myth about the Bears line being terrible comes from. What does everyone think Forte ran behind last year? I know pass blocking and run blocking are different but come on, it wasn't terrible.
as a bears fan i could not be happier with this deal, did we give up a lot yeah but having stability at qb is huge since we haven't had that since erik kramer, I don't know why everyone compares the records for orton and cutler. Orton got to start his rookie year on a team that the defense scored nearly as much as the offense. That team in 05 went 11-5 because of the D and because they didn't allow orton to do enough to make mistakes. Orton is a capable qb, but he is nowhere near the level of raw talent of cutler. Oh and I GURANTEE bears win the north this season.