WBB: Big 12 Player of the Year Leaders

BoxsterCy

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With Ashley Joens averaging a double-double in both all games and Big 12 games she's obviously in the top few for the award. With two games left not much more is going to occur to change the race. Interesting year since there aren't a lot of players with standout stats on the top team and maybe no strong bias for a senior. Note all stats I reference below are Big 12 conference games.

Baylor is SO balanced that they do not have someone who has standout individual stats. Pre-season POY pick and outstanding player, Lauren Cox is at 12.3 pts 8.1 rb 3.6 ast. 2.4 blocks, great overall in 4 categories but a little short on the scoring. I think Cox, Smith, Richards and Landrum sort of cancel either other out. For example, Baylor has four players with the league top 15 for assists, balance. Calling @geewago for input.

Some league leaders with stats from leader board:
  • Ashley Joens ISU 19.1 pts 10.3 rb (double-double)
  • Natasha Mack OSU 19.2 pts 12.3 rb (double-double) plus league leading 4.5 blocks and 2.0 steals
  • Lauren Heard TCU 19.0 pts 7.7 rbs 4.3 asts 2.3 steals (Best case to be made for a player from a leading team)
  • Lauren Cox Baylor 12.3 pts 8.1 rb 3.6 ast. 2.4 blocks (four categories among leaders and pres-season POY pick)
  • Brittney Brewer TTU 17.1 pts 9.7 rb (near double-double but short of making the final cut)
  • Vivian Gray OSU 19.9 pts 4.1 ast (good two category leader but teammate Mack is better)
Think it will be between Joens, Mack and Heard. I cut Cox and her four categories among leaders since Mack and Heard have those also and at a higher rank. Two juniors and a sophomore, no senior bias. Slight winners bias towards Heard. All three IMHO are totally deserving. Objectively, I think Heard and Mack have an edge over Joens as both are leaders in 4 categories each to Joen's 2 categories. Interesting in that my three leaders were all short of much pre-season recognition. Joens was honorable mention and Mack and Heard had no mention. All three players emerged as league leaders this season.
 
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ISU40

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Here is my take. Mack and Cox missed some games this year, not sure how many but Mack still had a good year. Like Boxster said, it is hard to pick just one from Baylor when they are very well rounded.
Obviously Lee from KSU will the FOY but I think Cooper will be Newcomer of the Year.
I still think Joens is the best but my guess is it will go to someone on Baylor or TCU.
 
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geewago

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[QUOTE="BoxsterCy,
I think Cox, Smith, Collier, Richards and Landrum sort of cancel either other out. For example, Baylor has four players with the league top 15 for assists, balance. Calling @geewago for input.

Boxter I can't predict these kind of things. A lot of times it turns out like T-Ball awards and they just feel like spreading the wealth around. Especially when it comes to the all Big12 team. The bottom feeder teams often have someone who makes the awards simply because they are the only player on the team with any high caliber skill so they are the go-to player on basically every play. In reality they are probably where they need to be because if you put them on a top tier team they would merely warm the bench or simply blend in and never be noticed.

Baylor has just won 10 Conference titles in a row and that's hard to do if the other teams had better players. This is just an opinion of mine but I'm not sure I would trade any starter on their team (this year) for any other player in the league even if I could. Every player on the team would have much higher stats if they were dispersed throughout the conference, but as you say it's a matter of balancing out when you put them on the same team. Joens at ISU, Collier at TX, & Gregory at OU for example are great players and in the case of Gregory & Collier I would sure like to see what they could do under good coaching.

I suspect this year you will see Robertson (ou), Collier & Holmes (tx), Brewer (tt), Martin (wv), Joens (isu), Grey (osu) etc etc on the Big12 team and they are certainly all deserving and fun to watch.

Since I've already typed this much i think I'll ask some of you folks a question. In your opinion what does it take to be a successful winning coach? Many coaches can come up with good game plans, make vital changes during a game, and excel at X & O abilities, but they cannot recruit great classes. But as they say, they can do more with less. Pebley for example at TCU. On the other hand some can recruit top 50 players quite well but can't coach them. Aston for example at TX. Geno at UConn has been so good at BOTH recruiting and coaching and the banners hanging from the ceiling prove that IMO.
 
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BoxsterCy

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Boxter I can't predict these kind of things. A lot of times it turns out like T-Ball awards and they just feel like spreading the wealth around. Especially when it comes to the all Big12 team. The bottom feeder teams often have someone who makes the awards simply because they are the only player on the team with any high caliber skill so they are the go-to player on basically every play. In reality they are probably where they need to be because if you put them on a top tier team they would merely warm the bench or simply blend in and never be noticed.
That's what impresses me about Mack from OSU. She's had a great year transitioning from JC but has had to do it playing with Gray who is sort of a ball hog (scores but is shooting like 33% or so). Being a post, she might be putting up similar numbers even on a deeper team. If I could have drafted one player for ISU this year from the other teams in the Big 12 it would be her or Cox. Than I'd ask if I could have Heard to. ;)

I do think the POY awards in the Big 12 have historically gone to the best player or at least one you can make a strong case for. Not so much in MLB baseball when it seems the MVP can be an annual debate over the best player versus the most valuable player on the best team. As far as the best player being from the best teams that's been sort of true as far as POY as Baylor and OU have 13 since 2020. I don't think we have had a lot of volume shooters from 2nd tier teams get the POY.
 

kcdc4isu

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Much has been posted about who should get the award and I am biased but my choice is Ashley Joens. I have watched all our games at least twice so have seen all the players when they played us and have watched games in which we were not playing. You have the bigs, Holmes, Cox, Brewer, Mack and Lee all are very good at their position. Then you have Robertson, Gray, Heard and Baylors unit at the guard position. Again all are very good. Where Ashley stands out to me is she plays multiple positions, inside and outside and is good at both. Many of the above mentioned players are good at one skill but not at others. If I had to put money on the choice I would say it will be Cox since she is on the number one team in the conference.
 

acoustimac

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Much has been posted about who should get the award and I am biased but my choice is Ashley Joens. I have watched all our games at least twice so have seen all the players when they played us and have watched games in which we were not playing. You have the bigs, Holmes, Cox, Brewer, Mack and Lee all are very good at their position. Then you have Robertson, Gray, Heard and Baylors unit at the guard position. Again all are very good. Where Ashley stands out to me is she plays multiple positions, inside and outside and is good at both. Many of the above mentioned players are good at one skill but not at others. If I had to put money on the choice I would say it will be Cox since she is on the number one team in the conference.
Can’t fault any of your logic here, but dang...I spit up a little thinking of another Baylor player winning just "because" they play there. Cox is a beast, but the all around nature of Joens should warrant strong consideration.
 
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BoxsterCy

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Can’t fault any of your logic here, but dang...I spit up a little thinking of another Baylor player winning just "because" they play there. Cox is a beast, but the all around nature of Joens should warrant strong consideration.
That's one of the reason I started the thread. Joens will be right in there but wanted peeps to remember that there are several pretty deserving players this year. Can't think of a year when we had multiple stat fillers in the same season, Joens in two categories and Cox, Heard and Mack in four categories. Not like we are looking at some one dimensional volume shooters. Or years like Griner and Paris who were three year runaway winners.
 
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theshadow

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Be prepared for a Baylor player to win it. Kim is still a little salty about last year.
 
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cydney

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Given that Cox just got player of the week for last week with stats that don't rival some amazing individual performances by several other players (Ashley included but could have gone to others too)... I'd say it's a telling sign that they are rewarding her for being on the championship team and will likely ditto that for POY.
 

Tornado man

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Here is my take. Mack and Cox missed some games this year, not sure how many but Mack still had a good year. Like Boxster said, it is hard to pick just one from Baylor when they are very well rounded.
Obviously Lee from KSU will the FOY but I think Cooper will be Newcomer of the Year.
I still think Joens is the best but my guess is it will go to someone on Baylor or TCU.
For me to vote for a non-Baylor player, they need to have had good games against the Bears. Joens was shut down by Baylor in the first game.
 

NWICY

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I don't have a problem with Cox getting player of the yr if she does. What was funny last yr was reading Sic em (the Baylor fan forum) and having them complain about their freshmen not winning awards when they didn't get any playing time.
 
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Buster28

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I'm kind of agreeing with a couple posts here about Cox and POY. I think since there isn't a lot of separation between so many of the top players that the default will be to give it to the pre-season choice, especially since she plays for the league champ. Not saying that's the right call, but I can easily see it happening. And I wouldn't have a very strong argument to say otherwise.
 

geewago

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Regardless of how WE feel about who should get what, it's not left up to us but to the coaches. And I'm glad it's that way. I think they know more about the game than we do and they're the ones who have to deal with all the opposing players and coaches. Remember, they cannot vote for their own players or for themselves as COY. And that's the only fair way to do it.
 

BoxsterCy

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Regardless of how WE feel about who should get what, it's not left up to us but to the coaches. And I'm glad it's that way. I think they know more about the game than we do and they're the ones who have to deal with all the opposing players and coaches. Remember, they cannot vote for their own players or for themselves as COY. And that's the only fair way to do it.
Kinda hard to argue that. It's not a bunch of suckup sports writers or total homers doing the voting.
 

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