Tough day for EIU hoops hopes

BCClone

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God you are dumb and an embarrassment to us Cyclone fans. Last year has nothing to do with this year. Garza is a complete beast and other teams lost players to the draft while Iowa kept arguably the best or second best player in the country (college only we aren't talking about pro prospect). Top it off with COVID it's already been mentioned that senior-laden teams will probably have a big advantage this year (Jay Williams talked about this). They are going to be a tough out, and it's why I was hoping Garza would have gotten decent enough feedback to go to the draft. Some of those guys drafted in the 2nd Rd he is absolutely better than, but oh well.
His defense is the major question. I don’t think he has had to face someone over 6 7 yet. Give him a 6 9/6 10 guy who he needs to go out on and either he is releasing him or fouling. If you score 30 but give up 30 it’s basically a wash. The other question the hawks have is the bench. Last year was the first year Fran didn’t try to go 10-11 deep (because he couldn’t due to injuries). That is his tendency, come a tight game will he start doing that again?
 

Beyerball

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God you are dumb and an embarrassment to us Cyclone fans. Last year has nothing to do with this year. Garza is a complete beast and other teams lost players to the draft while Iowa kept arguably the best or second best player in the country (college only we aren't talking about pro prospect). Top it off with COVID it's already been mentioned that senior-laden teams will probably have a big advantage this year (Jay Williams talked about this). They are going to be a tough out, and it's why I was hoping Garza would have gotten decent enough feedback to go to the draft. Some of those guys drafted in the 2nd Rd he is absolutely better than, but oh well.

NBA drafts on potential with athleticism being one of biggest baramoters outside potential..

There are a lot players who got drafted ahead of Niang who weren’t nearly the college players Niang was.

Basketball a lot diff than football..Success in college doesn’t always mean much to nba teams..

as for Iowa...Entire team is Garza. Take Garza away and that team doesn’t finish .500. Weiskamp is good but Garza being inside allows that..Weiskamp struggles to create his own imo.

Outside Jobo and Frederick I don’t see anyone who consistently hits 3’s..Maybe JW. Other concern I’d have is outside Tousaint who else is coming off bench in back court? Nobody.

Iowa depth is Tousaint and true frosh KM..Wait until real competition comes.

wts..They have Garza and with him they can make Somme noise..how much I’m not sure Yet.
 
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jctisu

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Fran is their coach and they can't defend. I'll stand by my 6 seed stance
I hope you end up being right because I am not going to be able to stomach it if they somehow get a top 2 or 3 seed and actually make a run. I just don't see how they get a 6 seed without some key injuries or something crazy happening. Fran is a terrible coach, but from watching them so far (yes against two terrible teams) it's looked like he is letting Garza basically run the show. We shall see, but I think a 6 seed without something crazy happening is insane and not going to be in the cards.
 

CyTwins

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I hope you end up being right because I am not going to be able to stomach it if they somehow get a top 2 or 3 seed and actually make a run. I just don't see how they get a 6 seed without some key injuries or something crazy happening. Fran is a terrible coach, but from watching them so far (yes against two terrible teams) it's looked like he is letting Garza basically run the show. We shall see, but I think a 6 seed without something crazy happening is insane and not going to be in the cards.
You don't see how an 8 seed from last year will get a 6 seed this year when they didn't add anyone?
 

jctisu

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NBA drafts on potential with athleticism being one of biggest baramoters outside potential..

There are a lot players who got drafted ahead of Niang who weren’t nearly the college players Niang was.

Basketball a lot diff than football..Success in college doesn’t always mean much to nba teams..

as for Iowa...Entire team is Garza. Take Garza away and that team doesn’t finish .500. Weiskamp is good but Garza being inside allows that..Weiskamp struggles to create his own imo.

Outside Jobo and Frederick I don’t see anyone who consistently hits 3’s..Maybe JW. Other concern I’d have is outside Tousaint who else is coming off bench in back court? Nobody.

Iowa depth is Tousaint and true frosh KM..Wait until real competition comes.

wts..They have Garza and with him they can make Somme noise..how much I’m not sure Yet.
No doubt it's all on potential except when you get into the late 2nd Rd. Those guys just start grabbing players who will maybe add to the bench and just maybe you find a diamond in the rough. Garza is absolutely better than a guy like Sam Merrill who got picked with the final pick.
 

jctisu

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His defense is the major question. I don’t think he has had to face someone over 6 7 yet. Give him a 6 9/6 10 guy who he needs to go out on and either he is releasing him or fouling. If you score 30 but give up 30 it’s basically a wash. The other question the hawks have is the bench. Last year was the first year Fran didn’t try to go 10-11 deep (because he couldn’t due to injuries). That is his tendency, come a tight game will he start doing that again?
I mean we had teams get some goods seeds in the tournament with bad defenses too, so all I am arguing and I can't believe I am arguing for the Hawks (just threw up) that I think the cardinal-colored glasses are clouding some of your thoughts.
 

BCClone

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I mean we had teams get some goods seeds in the tournament with bad defenses too, so all I am arguing and I can't believe I am arguing for the Hawks (just threw up) that I think the cardinal-colored glasses are clouding some of your thoughts.
I didn’t say they couldn’t/wouldn’t get a good seed. I was mentioning what their obstacles are. We don’t know yet because they have played exhibitions (while season is an exhibition according to hawkeyes anyhow) so far.
 
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jctisu

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You don't see how an 8 seed from last year will get a 6 seed this year when they didn't add anyone?
Ok here you go. Creighton with Doug McDermott was a 7 seed in 2013 and then a 3 seed in 2014. They added nobody and actually lost Gregory Echenique (very good role player for them) and bettered themselves.

I know you will say well the conference difference blah blah blah, but there's your exact example of how you can jump that many lines with the same team (in this case losing someone important). There are more than this. Congrats on getting me to bite on your trolling. You win, but you are in denial if you think they can be a top-3 seed. Enjoy talking to yourself all day on here.
 

jctisu

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I didn’t say they couldn’t/wouldn’t get a good seed. I was mentioning what their obstacles are. We don’t know yet because they have played exhibitions (while season is an exhibition according to hawkeyes anyhow) so far.
Agreed completely and not going to say this won't blow up for them when they start playing real teams. Again I hope all of you are right and I am wrong because I want nothing to do with a top-3 seeded Iowa team making a run or something. Puke to have to listen to that heathen of a fan base should that happen.

There have been some other top teams to this early point that have looked very shaky at best and even lost a over the weekend.
 

jctisu

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He's a beast defensively?
Doesn't need to be and we don't know yet if he improved on that until he plays somebody who will challenge him. We do know he's going to a be a double-double machine like normal.
 

CyTwins

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Ok here you go. Creighton with Doug McDermott was a 7 seed in 2013 and then a 3 seed in 2014. They added nobody and actually lost Gregory Echenique (very good role player for them) and bettered themselves.

I know you will say well the conference difference blah blah blah, but there's your exact example of how you can jump that many lines with the same team (in this case losing someone important). There are more than this. Congrats on getting me to bite on your trolling. You win, but you are in denial if you think they can be a top-3 seed. Enjoy talking to yourself all day on here.
So they could jump up to a 4 seed maybe? Doesn't seem very realistic but who knows
 

JP4CY

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Doesn't need to be and we don't know yet if he improved on that until he plays somebody who will challenge him. We do know he's going to a be a double-double machine like normal.
You said complete. Defense is half the game.
You then brought up how he was better than NBA draft picks. He didn't get drafted because he plays poor defense.
He's a great college player. Maybe approaching someone like Tyler Hansbrough. Not as good yet, but could be.
 
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cycloner29

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Garza doesn’t run the floor either. He gallops the floor. He’s better off just playing all-time offense. If he’s such a work horse hopefully they shod him with rubber horse shoes. The steel ones would be awful on a wood floor.
 
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Mick Mars

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Perhaps just as important as what player personnel was or wasn’t added is what coaching personnel was added. You have three guys on staff who are over 60- their philosophies are pretty well set at this point. I doubt Fran suddenly had an epiphany in year 11 at IA and 20+ as a head coach- he’s been offensive minded his entire career. What player on that roster screams out “bulldog, defensive stopper”? I watched Sparty-Notre Dame last night- in East Lansing you either guard or you sit- it’s non-negotiable. Same thing at Wisconsin and Illinois. Iowa will have their nights where they sit in their zone (b/c they can’t play M/M) and some teams will launch threes and make 22%, and the Hawks are good enough offensively they’ll win their share of those games. But in March or on the road, unless they’re playing a team just like themselves, they won’t advance.
 

jmb

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Ok here you go. Creighton with Doug McDermott was a 7 seed in 2013 and then a 3 seed in 2014. They added nobody and actually lost Gregory Echenique (very good role player for them) and bettered themselves.

I know you will say well the conference difference blah blah blah, but there's your exact example of how you can jump that many lines with the same team (in this case losing someone important). There are more than this. Congrats on getting me to bite on your trolling. You win, but you are in denial if you think they can be a top-3 seed. Enjoy talking to yourself all day on here.
Holy ****. Certainly there are examples but it is rare.
 

GoHawks

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You don't see how an 8 seed from last year will get a 6 seed this year when they didn't add anyone?
We added Patrick, Bohannon, and in the near future Nunge. Atleast Two solid players, it's hard to argue even for you. I'd take that over the losses of pemsl, Kreiner (did play a big role), and Evelyn
 
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