Title IX Podcast - Gender equity

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Cycsk

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The current Title IX podcast includes conversation about gender equity.


For instance, women's softball having to play until 2am and then get COVID testing early the next morning. This is much less likely to happen with men's baseball because the schedule is more spread out.

And the variations of treatment of Naomi Osaka and Roger Federer in tennis.
What would be reasonable next steps? Here are a few of my thoughts:

Hopefully, as women's softball becomes more popular, its schedule can be extended to be more like men's baseball.

And tennis players should be able to decide if they want to take part in media events, perhaps for extra pay or for their own image management if they want to do it.
 
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alarson

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Ive been listening to a lot of podcasts lately and just caught on to theirs, so i've been listening to some of their past episodes too.

Theyve been talking quite a bit about that. To add to what you posted, the issue regarding the transparency of value for the womens sports (since the sponsorship and media deals all get packaged into one deal, with womens often just a thrown-in item) was an interesting topic. That certainly has to make it harder to build the brand. There should be no illusion that theyre going to make football-like money, but when everything's packaged together its harder for them to go find sponsors and media partners that might match their market better or see the true valuations.
 

Jkclone15

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Wanted Naomi Osaka talk, got Naomi Osaka talk. Nailed it. Thought they raised interesting points on the difference between how mental and physical health are treated in sport.
 
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Jkclone15

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And tennis players should be able to decide if they want to take part in media events, perhaps for extra pay or for their own image management if they want to do it.

Do you think all athletes should have the right to refuse to take part in media events, or are you limiting that thought to tennis? I hope Naomi will get a chance to make reforms to how tennis players interact with the media, but every sport on the planet has media requirements, there are clearly benefits.
 
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alarson

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Do you think all athletes should have the right to refuse to take part in media events, or are you limiting that thought to tennis? I hope Naomi will get a chance to make reforms to how tennis players interact with the media, but every sport on the planet has media requirements, there are clearly benefits.

I think its fair, especially in professional leagues, for there to be requirements. That money they're making comes from somewhere.

But just as one may be excused from those for other health reasons, mental health should be a valid reason to opt out.
 

theshadow

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For instance, women's softball having to play until 2am and then get COVID testing early the next morning. This is much less likely to happen with men's baseball because the schedule is more spread out.

Hopefully, as women's softball becomes more popular, its schedule can be extended to be more like men's baseball.

I'm not going to get wound up about gender inequity based on something that's happened once (game ending at 2:18 a.m. plus COVID testing the next morning).

With college baseball anymore, based on what I've seen the last few tournaments, you almost have to block 4 hours for one game. And it's usually 50-55 minutes between games. So for a doubleheader, budget 9 hours. It's almost impossible to get 3 CBB games in one day unless you start at/before 10 a.m. The CWS also moved their second elimination games to 1 per day instead of 2 back in 2008 (days 5 and 6), which added a day to the schedule.

With softball, 4 games in a day is commonplace since the games are shorter and the time between is shorter. The problem this year was a 2-hour rain delay PLUS Oklahoma forcing an additional game PLUS Florida State forcing an additional game. Without the rain delay, there's no schedule alteration. With 0 or 1 "if necessary" games, there's no schedule alteration.

That pushed the whole schedule back a day, which didn't leave an evening TV window for Game 3 due to NBA and NCAA Track having been previously scheduled.

If you want to have only 2 softball games in one day, that's a 10-day event with a whole lot of down time.
 
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isutrevman

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The Osaka and Federer situations are not comparable at all. Two completely different things that shouldn't be compared. Osaka was punished for breaking the rules when she refused to speak to the media. Then she backed out of the tournament. That's fine, she should take whatever time she needs. I haven't heard many people, if any, have any issue with her backing out.

Federer didn't break any rules. He's a 40 year old legendary tennis player who used the French Open to shake off some rust and didn't want to beat up his body in a grueling match in the most physically demanding major. So, he forfeited his 5th round match. If Serena Williams did the same thing, I think she would have been treated the same as Federer. It's not ideal. I'd prefer he keep playing, but at this point in his career he knows he's not winning the French Open and is maybe gearing up for one more run at Wimbledon.

If a male tennis player didn't speak to the media, I'm guessing they'd be treated the same as Osaka was.

I'll add to this. Earlier in Novak Djokovic's career, he "retired" during several grand slam matches due to injury (in matches he was losing). He was hammered pretty hard in the media for quitting and not finishing out those matches. People were even questioning the severity of his injuries and essentially saying it was disrespectful. Was he actually injured in those matches and had no chance winning. For sure. Could he have finished the match out of respect for his opponent? Yes. Did the media handle him with kiddie gloves because he was a man? Absolutely not.
 
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Cycsk

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Do you think all athletes should have the right to refuse to take part in media events, or are you limiting that thought to tennis? I hope Naomi will get a chance to make reforms to how tennis players interact with the media, but every sport on the planet has media requirements, there are clearly benefits.


Yes, I would tie media events into the compensation for all players. Give them the chance to opt out for any reason, but then have to give up payments for it too. Right now, it is a mere obligation, and it shows.
 

cyclonespiker33

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I wonder if Osaka could have done the "I'm just here so I don't get fined" routine and got out of it. She shouldn't have to do a presser if it's hurting her mental health, but I wonder if that would be a better way to stick it to the French open coordinators.
 

madguy30

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I wonder if Osaka bit off a bit more than she can chew/it was too much too soon for coverage/hype etc.

I know other athletes have had similar success at similar ages and all but everyone responds differently.

It's cliche that money/fame doesn't make people happy but it's interesting how many in the spotlight have struggled for a very long time.
 

cyclonespiker33

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I wonder if Osaka bit off a bit more than she can chew/it was too much too soon for coverage/hype etc.

I know other athletes have had similar success at similar ages and all but everyone responds differently.

It's cliche that money/fame doesn't make people happy but it's interesting how many in the spotlight have struggled for a very long time.
I think it's great that she is bringing attention to it rather than struggling with it on her own. While unfortunate that it's needed, she may also have a big enough name to create change. That wasn't the case for some people.
 

madguy30

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I think it's great that she is bringing attention to it rather than struggling with it on her own. While unfortunate that it's needed, she may also have a big enough name to create change. That wasn't the case for some people.

Agree...it wasn't the case for a ton of people, not just in sports.
 

Cycsk

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The Osaka and Federer situations are not comparable at all.

They are not exactly parallel, but I found the comparison on the podcast was interesting. If nothing else, different sets of questions seems to have been raised by each.
 

SCNCY

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I think when it comes to media events, it depends on the situation. Sports like Tennis, Golf, Boxing, etc., there is no team, and therefore, the individual is managing their career. So if an individual decides to not do a press conference, that is for them to decide. They just have to accept the downstream marketing affects it may have.

If its a team sport like football, baseball, soccer, etc. then its usually in the teams best interest for its players to do press conferences due to marketability. After all, sports are in the entertainment industry and as entertainers, they could make more in sponsorships the more they are out in the public eye. I could see a scenario where part of a players contract is tied to doing press conferences, similar to how Board of Directors get a fixed amount for every board meeting they attend.
 

Jkclone15

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Yes, I would tie media events into the compensation for all players. Give them the chance to opt out for any reason, but then have to give up payments for it too. Right now, it is a mere obligation, and it shows.

That makes some sense, but the problem with tying media events to compensation is that players are compensated differently. $15,000 to Naomi Osaka is nothing, but to the 200th ranked player in the world that might be career ending. You could try to scale it to the player's winnings, but in tennis that would be complicated because their earnings are based on how they perform week to week. It would also ignore sponsorship deals which disproportionately go to the top players.
 

Cycsk

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That makes some sense, but the problem with tying media events to compensation is that players are compensated differently. $15,000 to Naomi Osaka is nothing, but to the 200th ranked player in the world that might be career ending. You could try to scale it to the player's winnings, but in tennis that would be complicated because their earnings are based on how they perform week to week. It would also ignore sponsorship deals which disproportionately go to the top players.


The money is most sports is tied up with the biggest stars. I see things moving more toward a market based approach. If there is value in having media exposure beyond the athletic performance itself, then there may be some sort of additional payments. I haven't thought it all the way through, but it seems like things are moving in this direction.
 

CyclonesFan4ever

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Steph Copley's hometown newspaper just published a feature article of the Title IX Podcast. As a die-hard Cyclone fan, I have listened pretty much every episode. I have learned a lot of from the duo and I appreciate the great work they have done. I hope this podcast series continues growing to become a indispensable part of CF podcast network.

 
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