The Two Powerhouse Football Conferences

  • Fanatics -

    Thank you for your patience today and welcome to the newest version of Cyclone Fanatic!

    Most of the changes we have made are very simple, but will greatly improve your user experience while visiting the website.

    We have upgraded our forum software to speed things up. Our homepage is much cleaner and should be even more mobile friendly than before.

    We appreciate your loyalty and are committed to not only keeping Cyclone Fanatic in tip-top shape, but continuing to build this community for the next decade and beyond.

    We ask that if you are experiences any glitches to let us know in this thread . Will will be diligently working on the site all day.

    Thanks again.

    Chris Williams - Publisher

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
Here is the conferece only SOS. https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/ranking/in-conference-sos-by-other

As you can see the Big12 stacks up pretty poorly to most other conferences. I had been saying that for awhile, because it only made sense. Look at the list the toughest 19 schedules were all Big10 and SEC teams. Makes total sense as they dominated the top 15 in the rankings and they all had to play each other.
That says Texas played a much more difficult conference schedule than Kansas. Lol solid source!
 
  • Like
Reactions: aauummm

TheBear

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2020
1,161
47
48
44
You cherry pick. We get it
says the king of cherry picking. CyTwins says Sagarin SOS is all that ever counts. At the same time he says you can’t use the Sagarin Rankings, which are used to determine SOS, or the Sagarin Predictor to show that isu wouldn’t win any more games playing Iowa’s schedule than they would with the schedule they have.

CyTwins and reality have never been real compatible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clarence Butthorn

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
That is one way to wave the white flag.
Discrediting something is waving a white flag? If you trust something that says Texas played the 26th toughest conference schedule and Kansas played the 49th toughest conference schedule I don't know what to do but laugh at you
 

Legend Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2018
4,139
1,500
83
44
Discrediting something is waving a white flag? If you trust something that says Texas played the 26th toughest conference schedule and Kansas played the 49th toughest conference schedule I don't know what to do but laugh at you
LOL, you think you discredited something? I could find a dozen things in Sagarin like this, does that mean it is "discredited". All metrics have what I or you consider flaws, but all of it is still relevant. It is funny how hard you try to defend your SOS troll.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clarence Butthorn

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
You think Sagarin is perfect, and has no flaws? You have said yourself you don't use any basketball information from it, and you use AP over the Sagarin rating. Obviously even you think it has flaws.
I don't see any flaws in Sagarin's SOS no. I haven't looked at every team but it seems to all make sense. What are the dozen flaws you see with it?
 

TheBear

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2020
1,161
47
48
44
I don't see any flaws in Sagarin's SOS no. I haven't looked at every team but it seems to all make sense. What are the dozen flaws you see with it?
Nothing wrong with Sagarin SOS as long as you don’t also use anything else Sagarin has to say.

Called it. Cherry picking by CyTwins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clarence Butthorn

Legend Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2018
4,139
1,500
83
44
I don't see any flaws in Sagarin's SOS no. I haven't looked at every team but it seems to all make sense. What are the dozen flaws you see with it?
LOL, so Sagarin has no flaws, and no other metric is even worth looking at.

Lets see at first glance I don't see how a 7-6 North Carolina with the #60 SOS according to him is ranked ahead of a 8-5 Cal team who played a tougher schedule according to him (#43).
Sagarin also has a 8-5 Virginia Tech with the #74 SOS ranked higher than a 10-3 SMU with a tougher SOS (#72 according to him).

How do these things make sense in a computer metric? I mean how can you win more games, play a tougher schedule and be ranked below a team who won less games playing an easier schedule.

I could find dozens of things with Sagarin, it is terribly flawed. The thing is it still has value and I will still use it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clarence Butthorn

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
LOL, so Sagarin has no flaws, and no other metric is even worth looking at.

Lets see at first glance I don't see how a 7-6 North Carolina with the #60 SOS according to him is ranked ahead of a 8-5 Cal team who played a tougher schedule according to him (#43).
Sagarin also has a 8-5 Virginia Tech with the #74 SOS ranked higher than a 10-3 SMU with a tougher SOS (#72 according to him).

How do these things make sense in a computer metric? I mean how can you win more games, play a tougher schedule and be ranked below a team who won less games playing an easier schedule.

I could find dozens of things with Sagarin, it is terribly flawed. The thing is it still has value and I will still use it.
So you have a problem with two of Sagarin's ratings and not their SOS metric portion of it? Ok. Let me know the other 10
 

Legend Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2018
4,139
1,500
83
44
So you have a problem with two of Sagarin's ratings and not their SOS metric portion of it? Ok. Let me know the other 10
It is one metric. Move a team up and down the rankings that affects the SOS metric. It is all tied together. Those flaws I pointed out lead to a flawed SOS portion of his metric.

Lets face it though, you are a Cherry picker, and I'm a lover of all data and metrics. The top 19 in conference SOS belonged to the Big10 (9) and SEC (10). If you wanna worry about Texas vs Kansas in conference SOS fine. It isn't like either one of them played a tough in conference schedule.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clarence Butthorn

CyclonesRock

Well-Known Member
Jan 1, 2018
336
423
63
54
I guess I’m not pointing out the obvious here, but if you scroll down a little further in the link, Iowa’s Sagarin rating is higher than every team in the B12 except Oklahoma so...maybe the B12 is a couple points higher rated than the B1G West, but then we can all agree that Iowa is better than everyone in the B12 except Oklahoma no?
Maybe Iowa should join the Big XII then and show us how dominant they can be against our inferior conference. When you get to duck the best teams in your league, like the B1G West does on a consistent basis, it certainly is much easier to have an inflated record.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aauummm

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
It is one metric. Move a team up and down the rankings that affects the SOS metric. It is all tied together. Those flaws I pointed out lead to a flawed SOS portion of his metric.

Lets face it though, you are a Cherry picker, and I'm a lover of all data .
So what are the other 10 flaws?
 

Legend Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2018
4,139
1,500
83
44
Maybe Iowa should join the Big XII then and show us how dominant they can be against our inferior conference. When you get to duck the best teams in your league, like the B1G West does on a consistent basis, it certainly is much easier to have an inflated record.
Well the best Big12 team ever historically joined the Big10 West and now they suck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clarence Butthorn

Legend Hawk

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2018
4,139
1,500
83
44
So what are the other 10 flaws?
These are all based on HIS OWN SOS metric. He has tons of teams ranked higher than teams with the same or more wins and a tougher SOS.

3) Washington St. ranked higher than Miss St who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
4) Nebraska not ranked dead last
5) UCF ranked higher than Navy who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
6) ISU ranked #28, LOL
7) Texas ranked higher than Baylor
8) Texas ranked #15, LOL
9) Kentucky ranked higher than Virginia who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
10) Tennessee ranked higher than Arizona St. who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
11) Michigan ranked higher than Auburn who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
12) Oklahoma St ranked higher than USC who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin

I have never dismissed a metric, but looking over Sagarin's own flaws and contradictions I'm wondering just how much value Sagarin even has?
 

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
These are all based on HIS OWN SOS metric. He has tons of teams ranked higher than teams with the same or more wins and a tougher SOS.

3) Washington St. ranked higher than Miss St who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
4) Nebraska not ranked dead last
5) UCF ranked higher than Navy who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
6) ISU ranked #28, LOL
7) Texas ranked higher than Baylor
8) Texas ranked #15, LOL
9) Kentucky ranked higher than Virginia who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
10) Tennessee ranked higher than Arizona St. who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
11) Michigan ranked higher than Auburn who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
12) Oklahoma St ranked higher than USC who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin

I have never dismissed a metric, but looking over Sagarin's own flaws and contradictions I'm wondering just how much value Sagarin even has?
You're talking about the ratings not specifically SOS like I'm talking about. I don't care that Team Rankings has Iowa State as a top 25 team their SOS metric is a joke.

The fact they have Texas way ahead of Kansas when it's a fact Kansas played a tougher conference schedule is laughable
 

CyTwins

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2010
66,363
49,095
113
Ankeny
These are all based on HIS OWN SOS metric. He has tons of teams ranked higher than teams with the same or more wins and a tougher SOS.

3) Washington St. ranked higher than Miss St who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
4) Nebraska not ranked dead last
5) UCF ranked higher than Navy who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
6) ISU ranked #28, LOL
7) Texas ranked higher than Baylor
8) Texas ranked #15, LOL
9) Kentucky ranked higher than Virginia who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
10) Tennessee ranked higher than Arizona St. who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
11) Michigan ranked higher than Auburn who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
12) Oklahoma St ranked higher than USC who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin

I have never dismissed a metric, but looking over Sagarin's own flaws and contradictions I'm wondering just how much value Sagarin even has?
Also D+, you tried too hard on it. Nebraska kept you from an F though
 

iahawks

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2012
7,299
5,058
113
These are all based on HIS OWN SOS metric. He has tons of teams ranked higher than teams with the same or more wins and a tougher SOS.

3) Washington St. ranked higher than Miss St who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
4) Nebraska not ranked dead last
5) UCF ranked higher than Navy who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
6) ISU ranked #28, LOL
7) Texas ranked higher than Baylor
8) Texas ranked #15, LOL
9) Kentucky ranked higher than Virginia who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
10) Tennessee ranked higher than Arizona St. who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
11) Michigan ranked higher than Auburn who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin
12) Oklahoma St ranked higher than USC who had a tougher SOS according to Sagarin

I have never dismissed a metric, but looking over Sagarin's own flaws and contradictions I'm wondering just how much value Sagarin even has?
Mic drop