The Two Powerhouse Football Conferences

Discussion in 'In-State Rivals' started by CyTwins, May 19, 2020.

  1. AuH2O

    AuH2O Well-Known Member

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    Define "competed." MSU was in the playoff, but anyone watching that could see that they had as much chance as Simpson for actually winning a national title.

    But to better answer your question, 2014 was the strange Baylor/TCU situation. TCU loses at Baylor on a last second FG after a horrible pass interference call. TCU should've probably been in the playoff. I have no idea if they would've been competitive in the playoffs, but I believe that would be the last time anyone other than OU was in contention right up to the playoff selection

    People arguing that Baylor should've been in that year are wrong. They played garbage non-con, got beat by a mediocre WVU team, were the beneficiaries of terrible officiating vs. TCU, and of course, **** Baylor.
     
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  2. BCClone

    BCClone Well-Known Member

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    So you are going to go with Michigan state is the second best team in the big ten?
     
  3. BCClone

    BCClone Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you remember, there was a big push to name one as conference champ. Bowlsby couldn’t ball up and say we are going with X, he said they Both are champs, so they punished the big XII and dropped both. Bowlsby has been a train wreck as a commissioner.
     
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  4. Thinker

    Thinker Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely not, you were the one that brought them up. I was simply asking who else has been in a playoff besides OU? No one, that is who. So I guess Big 12 is OU and that is it right?
     
  5. Thinker

    Thinker Well-Known Member

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    Fact of the matter is No one besides OU has competed in the playoffs besides OU for the Big 12. saying the Big 10 is a one team league but failing to see how the Big 12 has actually been the 1 bid league since the playoffs have started is kind of dumb.
     
  6. motorcy90

    motorcy90 Well-Known Member

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    Big 10 is also the only conference to lay not one but 2 goose eggs in a playoff game..
     
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  7. Thinker

    Thinker Well-Known Member

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    Was that against OU? or the National Champ?
     
  8. AuH2O

    AuH2O Well-Known Member

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    In what, 6 years of the playoffs you've had OU and OSU in plenty, MSU with one time in being utterly non-competitive, and TCU within one hose job of being in. So there's a hair separating the two leagues in whose been in the playoffs, and we're comparing a 14 team league to a 10 team league.

    Realistically, anyone who's honest with themselves understands that both are one-team leagues in terms of being realistic contenders. Fluke seasons like TCU, Baylor 2014 or MSU 2015 might happen occasionally, and teams like Texas and Michigan are going to overrated and be in conversations they don't belong in, but when it comes down to it, the Big 10 is OSU and everybody else, the Big 12 is OU and everybody else. Hopefully that changes, but that's the way it is right now

    Obviously there are tiers and differences, but to claim the Big 10 is not a one team league because one time in a 14 team league MSU was able to go show that they absolutely did not belong on the same field as Alabama isn't a really good argument.
     
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  9. Acylum

    Acylum Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but Nebraska is always supposed to be really good.
     
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  10. Legend Hawk

    Legend Hawk Well-Known Member

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    If you are speaking playoffs, yeah for sure the Big10 has OSU and the Big12 OSU. If you look at the tier right below that though the Big10 has several schools that are very close. It wouldn't be some miracle if a Penn St., Michigan or Wisconsin made the playoffs at all. Then add in Iowa and MSU fighting it out for a playoff birth in 2015. The Big12 on the other hand doesn't really have any teams that are consistently top notch like a Wisconsin, Penn St., Michigan or Iowa. Baylor was good last year, but garbage since Briles pretty much. Texas has had like 1 10 win season in like what 10 years? There just isn't that quality tier or teams just below the top dog like the Big10 has had recently. Texas used to be it, but no longer is that at all.
     
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  11. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    To whom? Did you miss Kansas rolling up Boston College at home? The ACC has been a one man band for years.
     
  12. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    The Big XII needs the Little X's bowl lineup.
     
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  13. isutrevman

    isutrevman Well-Known Member
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    I'm surprised they are even worse than the Pac 12, and significantly. I knew they were behind the SEC, Big 12 and Big Ten.
     
  14. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen the part where that next coach is now coaching an NFL team? We wanted them to be garbage but unfortunately that didn't really happen.
     
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  15. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    #55 ArgentCy, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    The Pac XII was a little better last year. They are just kinda meh, all around. Not terrible but not great.

    Although, taking a closer look both ACC conference divisions are rated below the non-P5 AAC west. That is bad.
     
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  16. AuH2O

    AuH2O Well-Known Member

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    #56 AuH2O, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Yeah, I said there are definitely some tiers beyond OSU and OU, I was responding to the poster that was using the MSU cameo as his argument.

    It's a little tough to look at the conferences because you have to balance seasons like Baylor or MN last year, but over the past few years I see the Big 12 as OU, then everybody else besides Kansas, then Kansas. There's some level of pecking order in that group of 8 in the middle, but there hasn't been consistent, significant separation between those teams.

    Big 10 seems to have some more distinct tiers, with maybe UW, PSU, and Michigan as a really good second tier, with Iowa close but not quite at that level consistently. Minnesota is obviously going to be interesting to watch, as is MSU.

    I guess it depends on how you rank strength, but Sagarin's methodology seems to like consistently like the Big12. You can argue methodology, but you consider all the non-con and bowl games over the years, and it's a hell of a lot of data that says the Big12 has been a very good football conference.
     
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  17. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    The median ranking system skewed slightly in favor of the Big XII. You could also put us third behind the Big X east, pretty darn similar really to the Big X east. But that is what we've argued for a long time. The Big XII has a bunch of good teams, very few great and very few poor teams.
     
  18. Legend Hawk

    Legend Hawk Well-Known Member

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    For sure, and I agree with your post actually. I just think the depth behind the very super top tier (OSU and OU) is much better in the Big10. I didn't even count a say Minnesota who had a great year last year (like Baylor did). I'm more looking at the sustain success of a Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn St. and even Iowa. The Big12 has no program that has had the success of those 4 over the last 5 years for instance (the closest is Ok St.).

    The bottom line is the Big12 is a good conference, so is the Big10. Most of the peeing matches on here are just that, arguing for arguments sake.
     
  19. Lyddea

    Lyddea Well-Known Member

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    #59 Lyddea, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Apologize in advance, but my data-loving heart was interested, so I present the conferences in the CFP era (2014-present) by the numbers:

    CFP Wins ... Nattys ... Unique teams

    https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2020-01-14/teams-most-college-football-playoff-wins-and-appearances

    1. SEC: 9 ... 3 ... 3
    2. ACC: 6 ... 2 ... 2
    3. B1G: 2 ... 1 ... 2
    4. P12: 1 ... 0 ... 2
    5. B12: 0 ... 0 ... 1

    OOC record (P5 only)
    https://topdan.com/college-football-conference-records/2019.html

    1. SEC: 16-8, 14-9, 10-12, 11-14, 14-7, 11-10 = 76-60
    2. P12: 8-5, 6-7, 7-9, 8-8, 6-8, 11-4 = 46-41
    3. B1G: 7-10, 12-9, 14-6, 9-11, 12-13, 11-13 = 65-62
    4. B12: 7-7, 8-9, 8-8, 5-8, 7-7, 6-11 = 43-50
    5. ACC: 6-14, 7-13, 10-14, 17-9, 9-13, 10-11 = 59-74

    Bowl record
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_NCAA_football_bowl_games

    1. SEC: 8-2, 6-6, 5-6, 6-7, 9-2, 7-5 = 41-28
    2. B1G: 4-5, 5-4, 7-1, 3-7, 5-5, 6-5 = 30-27
    3. P12: 4-3, 3-4, 1-8, 3-3, 6-4, 6-3 = 23-25
    4. ACC: 4-7, 6-5, 4-6, 9-3, 4-6, 4-7 = 31-34
    5. B12: 1-5, 4-3, 5-3, 4-2, 3-4, 2-5 = 19-22

    Draft picks per team per year
    https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2020-nfl-draft-picks-by-college-team-conference-lsu-ties-all-time-record-sec-on-top-for-14th-straight-year/

    1. SEC: 63 + 64 + 53 + 53 + 51 + 54 = 338/(14*6) = 4.0
    2. B1G: 48 + 40 + 32 + 35 + 47 + 35 = 237/(14*6) = 2.8
    3. P12: 32 + 33 + 30 + 36 + 32 + 39 = 202/(12*6) = 2.8
    4. ACC: 27 + 28 + 46 + 43 + 26 + 47 = 217/(14*6) = 2.6
    5. B12: 21 + 26 + 20 + 14 + 26 + 25 = 132/(10*6) = 2.2

    Top 25 finishes per team (over all 6 years)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_NCAA_football_bowl_games

    1. SEC: 5, 6, 5, 5, 5, 6 = 32/(14) = 2.29
    2. B1G: 6, 5, 5, 4, 6, 3 = 29/(14) = 2.07
    3. B12: 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 3 = 19/(10) = 1.90
    4. P12: 2, 2, 3, 5, 3, 6 = 21/(12) = 1.75
    5. ACC: 1, 2, 4, 5, 3, 4 = 19/(14) = 1.36
     
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  20. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

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    Sagarin isn't perfect but it is a better measure of strength than those statistics.

    Bowl records are completely useless. Fun to look at but that's about all. Besides the emotional motivations the matchups are the same every year. A simple W-L total is meaningless.

    NFL draft picks may be a good measure of talent but is subject to bias. Perhaps an analysis of all NFL starters would add believability to the data. But it completely ignores coaching ability and I think that is a Big XII strength.

    The playoffs measure very little and it's a damn beauty contest to get in. Far too limited
     
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