The battle between Iowa high schools and state.

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Should high school sports happen if school is 100% virtual?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 35.5%
  • No

    Votes: 81 58.7%
  • No opinion

    Votes: 8 5.8%

  • Total voters
    138

stateofmind

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2007
5,121
2,128
113
Ankeny
I don’t like to admit when I’m wrong or own up to mistakes I’ve made...but my 14-18 year old self thinking that HS and HS sports mattered more than anything and would be the best and most important time in my life was dead wrong and absolutely stupid and that wasn’t even during a global pandemic where more Americans have died now than all US battlefield deaths in the country’s history combined.

Seeing that Roosevelt kid spouting off about “this is my senior season it is the most important thing in the world” just makes me cringe so hard I atrophied.
Huh?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Acylum

AuH2O

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2013
4,196
4,417
113
I agree that sports are valuable to kids and society. I love sports! I spend time daily on a sports message board for goodness sake! I know this is not the place for this argument, but maybe school is not the best place for sports. But sports is generally a school activity in America. So it is what it is.

Now, a large school may have an enrollment of 2000, but. each individual classroom generally has a population of around 20-30. I know some classrooms will have more and others will have less, but it's generally at the same or smaller number than what may be involved with the sport or activity. And if the students are fully masked in the classroom and in the school, and if the general guidance from experts is to be trusted, then a student in a classroom may potentially have less exposure than an unmasked student at practice.

Granted, outside practices may allow for less exposure risk, but lots of physical contact among athletes has to be an issue in an area with large amounts of community spread.
Once they are in the classroom it is manageable. Getting them there is another thing at the start of school, passing periods, going to lunch, etc. I would guess that even the best developed plans have some sort of physical and time constraints that puts kids in close contact with many kids throughout the day. Just talked to my father in law that teaches in a small school in NW Iowa, and Brother in law, whose kids go to Johnston. And they said their plans are great, but there are inevitable times and places where the kids are in close contact with lots of kids. I'm sure there are some schools pulling it off, and by no means am I saying it is not helpful, as it certainly is. But I think the process of pulling of in-person school in it's totality is much more difficult than FB or even VB practice.
 

beentherebefore

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2007
820
965
93
Once they are in the classroom it is manageable. Getting them there is another thing at the start of school, passing periods, going to lunch, etc. I would guess that even the best developed plans have some sort of physical and time constraints that puts kids in close contact with many kids throughout the day. Just talked to my father in law that teaches in a small school in NW Iowa, and Brother in law, whose kids go to Johnston. And they said their plans are great, but there are inevitable times and places where the kids are in close contact with lots of kids. I'm sure there are some schools pulling it off, and by no means am I saying it is not helpful, as it certainly is. But I think the process of pulling of in-person school in it's totality is much more difficult than FB or even VB practice.
Totally agree.

That being said, the principal of a very large high school told me that he and the staff meticulously measured out (and the yard lines helped, of course) six feet of distance between every chair for the July outdoor graduation ceremony at the school's football stadium, and all the graduates and attendees were to be masked, yet most students arrived in cars in groups of 3-6, not wearing masks, and hugging and such like kids do. So the best plans certainly don't always work because kids are kids.

Maybe I just made your argument, but it may not be school or the number of students that is the problem. It may simply be behavior in general.
 

CYdTracked

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2006
13,293
3,548
113
Grimes, IA
You would hope so. DMPS originally had a 40% in-person plan in place (before Gov. Reynolds required 50%). I would hope they could reinstate that or some other partial plan at tonight's meeting and get the negotiations going.
This is the dumbest part of DMPS argument. All they have to do is add a 3rd day every other week and they can even make it an early out day and that is all they would need to meet the 50% requirement. Hell practically every school in the metro area has figured out how to make a hybrid or full in person learning plan work. Waukee is going full in person right now so if a school that big can make that work I don't see why DMPS can't do what a lot of other schools are doing is do an A and B group hybrid model and make 1 day an early out where group A goes on that day 1 week and Group B goes the other week. De-clutter the classrooms of any non-essential items and furniture and turn other areas into the school into class space or an extra lunch room and you can make distancing work along with mandatory face coverings. At my child's school the class sizes are about 40% of what they would normally be because of the hybrid model and the students that chose full online learning option which is still available even if you have in person learning. For lunch they only seat 1 side of the table and only let a certain number of kids sit per table in order to give them some space while eating too. I feel very comfortable sending my child to school with the measures and protocols our school is taking and I hope things continue to be as successful as they have been so far.

It's not rocket science to make some form of in person learning work while still offering full online options for those who can't or don't want to participate in in person learning at the school. DMPS is just making this a political pissing match while using their students as pawns and is looking stupid for digging in on this when everyone else in the area found a way to make it work under the law. Looks like they may have taken this down off their site now but WHOTV still has a copy of their survey results: https://who13.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2020/07/DMPS-Return-To-Learn-2020-21.pdf Over 75% of DMPS families said they would sent their child to some form of in person learning in a modified school week. The school board and administration should not be playing these political games when a good chunk of the families they are representing want some form of in person learning for their children. Everyone else was able to adjust their plans once they 50% requirement was announced so there is no excuse why they could not have as well. I moved out of DM and into a suburb city before we had kids because I didn't want to send kids to DMPS some day and this is just another example why I am glad we don't live in that school district as I would be pissed right now and probably have voiced my frustrations with the school board and administration by now if my family had to go through what they are putting their district through right now.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BigD

BCClone

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
Sep 4, 2011
30,467
22,478
113
North Iowa
This is the dumbest part of DMPS argument. All they have to do is add a 3rd day every other week and they can even make it an early out day and that is all they would need to meet the 50% requirement. Hell practically every school in the metro area has figured out how to make a hybrid or full in person learning plan work. Waukee is going full in person right now so if a school that big can make that work I don't see why DMPS can't do what a lot of other schools are doing is do an A and B group hybrid model and make 1 day an early out where group A goes on that day 1 week and Group B goes the other week. De-clutter the classrooms of any non-essential items and furniture and turn other areas into the school into class space or an extra lunch room and you can make distancing work along with mandatory face coverings. At my child's school the class sizes are about 40% of what they would normally be because of the hybrid model and the students that chose full online learning option which is still available even if you have in person learning. For lunch they only seat 1 side of the table and only let a certain number of kids sit per table in order to give them some space while eating too. I feel very comfortable sending my child to school with the measures and protocols our school is taking and I hope things continue to be as successful as they have been so far.

It's not rocket science to make some form of in person learning work while still offering full online options for those who can't or don't want to participate in in person learning at the school. DMPS is just making this a political pissing match while using their students as pawns and is looking stupid for digging in on this when everyone else in the area found a way to make it work under the law. Looks like they may have taken this down off their site now but WHOTV still has a copy of their survey results: https://who13.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2020/07/DMPS-Return-To-Learn-2020-21.pdf Over 75% of DMPS families said they would sent their child to some form of in person learning in a modified school week. The school board and administration should not be playing these political games when a good chunk of the families they are representing want some form of in person learning for their children. Everyone else was able to adjust their plans once they 50% requirement was announced so there is no excuse why they could not have as well. I moved out of DM and into a suburb city before we had kids because I didn't want to send kids to DMPS some day and this is just another example why I am glad we don't live in that school district as I would be pissed right now and probably have voiced my frustrations with the school board and administration by now if my family had to go through what they are putting their district through right now.

You could have the wednesday loaded up with specials and outside learning for a couple months to keep them out of the class rooms you wanted to have time to clean and disinfect. Cut them out around 1 and call it in-service teacher time the rest of the day.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: CYdTracked

Gunnerclone

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2010
42,085
33,408
113
DSM
I don’t think people grasp the scale that DMPS works on compared to Waukee, Ankeny, etc. that’s not even taking in to account the resources of the district and average family in the district.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: CycloneErik

Lookoverhere

New Member
Dec 9, 2015
22
16
3
I have a hard time reconciling that home schooled kids in Iowa have always been allowed to play sports with their local HS team. Now we have a whole district of essentially home schooled kids (albeit with professional teachers vs parents), and those kids are NOT allowed to play sports. What's the difference? I don't know.
 

theshadow

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2006
9,598
3,312
113
I have a hard time reconciling that home schooled kids in Iowa have always been allowed to play sports with their local HS team. Now we have a whole district of essentially home schooled kids (albeit with professional teachers vs parents), and those kids are NOT allowed to play sports. What's the difference? I don't know.
The difference is the school district saying "we're going 100% online" vs. the school district offering the option of in-person or online and the parents choosing online.

In the second instance, there is still in-person instruction being held at the school even though families may have opted for online instead.
 

BCClone

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
Sep 4, 2011
30,467
22,478
113
North Iowa
The difference is the school district saying "we're going 100% online" vs. the school district offering the option of in-person or online and the parents choosing online.

In the second instance, there is still in-person instruction being held at the school even though families may have opted for online instead.

Home schooling doesn't mean that the kids are online. Our district have several (about 10% of what our k-12 is) and they meet at the church across the street from our house one day a week for a formal teacher and then she guides the parents in lesson plans for the next week.
 

theshadow

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2006
9,598
3,312
113
Home schooling doesn't mean that the kids are online. Our district have several (about 10% of what our k-12 is) and they meet at the church across the street from our house one day a week for a formal teacher and then she guides the parents in lesson plans for the next week.
Then "at school" vs. "not at school," if you prefer. The concept is still the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BCClone

Cyforce

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2009
5,687
2,291
113
Des Moines
You could have the wednesday loaded up with specials and outside learning for a couple months to keep them out of the class rooms you wanted to have time to clean and disinfect. Cut them out around 1 and call it in-service teacher time the rest of the day.
DMPS nixed the 40% plan in July or very early August based on Covid risk.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: BCClone

Cyrealist

Active Member
Sep 25, 2013
254
163
43
64
Then "at school" vs. "not at school," if you prefer. The concept is still the same.
It's not the same. Home-schooled children have parents who have chosen that as the means of instruction and are willing to invest the time and resources to accomplish it. Many online students have parents who lack the desire or resources to facilitate the instruction.. If the risk of Covid is too great for schools to do the primary job for which they exist, then the risks are too great for sports also.
 

BCClone

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
Sep 4, 2011
30,467
22,478
113
North Iowa
My daughter is 50% online I guess. She is taking online classes through a CC for the first half of the day and then goes into school for afternoon and VB practice.
 

theshadow

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2006
9,598
3,312
113
It's not the same. Home-schooled children have parents who have chosen that as the means of instruction and are willing to invest the time and resources to accomplish it. Many online students have parents who lack the desire or resources to facilitate the instruction.. If the risk of Covid is too great for schools to do the primary job for which they exist, then the risks are too great for sports also.
The concept, for this discussion, is the same. It's a matter of in-person (at school) learning vs. remote (home school or online) learning, dependent on how the school district has approached this school year (mandated at-school, mandated remote, or a parental option).

That is the driver behind whether or not extracurricular activities are being held (or are even allowed to be held) in any given district.
 

Cyforce

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2009
5,687
2,291
113
Des Moines
DMPS has had an accredited online program for years called virtual academy. In the past this program allowed students to be 100% online and still participate in extracurricular activities. They have used this program for their current online education. That's the argument the district has as i understand it.