Steele Jantz-Jerome Tiller-James Capello-Jared Barnett...

[Lyon309Cy]

The better question is, when, not if, we see demands for one of the back-up QB's. Do we give the starter a full game? If Iowa shuts us down, will we be in uproar?
Whoever the starter is, it's not fair to expect great things from them right away. Regardless of who starts, the most important thing for our offense is to find our identity early in the season. It seems the last few years we've gone into the season thinking we were going to be a passing team, and it takes half a season before we realize that we can run the ball more consistently than we can throw it. Based on what we have coming back, and the questions at QB, I hope we realize that we are a run-first offense right now. It can come from many and varied places, but we need to run to set up the pass. I have more confidence in one (or more) of Shontrelle, Woody, Duck, White, Standard, or Nealy stepping up than I do that any of our QB's will look like a starter at the BCS level.

 

[FootballinTexas]

The better question is, when, not if, we see demands for one of the back-up QB's. Do we give the starter a full game? If Iowa shuts us down, will we be in uproar?
Whoever the starter is, it's not fair to expect great things from them right away. Regardless of who starts, the most important thing for our offense is to find our identity early in the season. It seems the last few years we've gone into the season thinking we were going to be a passing team, and it takes half a season before we realize that we can run the ball more consistently than we can throw it. Based on what we have coming back, and the questions at QB, I hope we realize that we are a run-first offense right now. It can come from many and varied places, but we need to run to set up the pass. I have more confidence in one (or more) of Shontrelle, Woody, Duck, White, Standard, or Nealy stepping up than I do that any of our QB's will look like a starter at the BCS level.

Great points. A couple of questions that I would like to throw out are this: If the guys mentioned in this thread are close at the end of spring, meaning they all are capable, and we are expecting growing pains that could last until the middle of the season, who would you to with? I think the x-factor is Barnett in that would it be worth it to waste a
year of eligibility for him if he can give you the same things as JT or Steele if we think we're going to be a 5 win team. We could get 4-5 wins out of him by letting the run-first offense lead us until he's comfortable. Now you have 3 more years of a guy with experience. I know it all sounds good with Steele and I'm on board if that's how CPR wants it. But, if we don't get anymore out of him or JT than we can with Barnett or even Capello, it's a wasted year of Maturity and advancement for the Cyclones. If Steele or JT gets it done, then everything is a mute point. That's my opinion.

 

[Al_4_State]

Agree 100%. I guess I am in complete, "I won't believe it until I see it" mode when it comes to the offense. Herman has gotten a lot of hype but has showed very little. The WR corp gets hyped every year but hasn't shown squat for a long time. Some scout team player gets hyped but rarely produces. And some JUCO recruit gets hyped and leaves us out to drive with their performance. I know that after two years of being excited about our offense and its potential, I am not buying any hype this year. Not Jarvis West, not Jantz, not KO...not anything until they prove it in the field where it counts.

I'm not buying into this message board hype either. The reasons I think Jantz will start have nothing to do with what people on CF are saying. I wouldn't be shocked if Tiller started either, but right now, if I had to put money on it I'd go with Jantz.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I'm not buying into this message board hype either. The reasons I think Jantz will start have nothing to do with what people on CF are saying. I wouldn't be shocked if Tiller started either, but right now, if I had to put money on it I'd go with Jantz.

I agree with this. I would love to see Tiller make a huge leap but I'm just not sure if it will happen.

 

[JUKEBOX]

I just hope the starter is consistent and can occasionally hit the big play.

Next Year:

Bad QB: 3-5 wins
Good QB: 5-7 wins
Great QB: 7-10 wins
Superman: 10-13 wins

 

[tazclone]

I just hope the starter is consistent and can occasionally hit the big play.

Next Year:

Bad QB: 3-5 wins
Good QB: 5-7 wins
Great QB: 7-10 wins
Superman: 10-13 wins

It will take more than a great QB to get 7-10 wins. The whole offense needs to step it up including the OC and WR corp.

 

[Stormin]

Great points. A couple of questions that I would like to throw out are this: If the guys mentioned in this thread are close at the end of spring, meaning they all are capable, and we are expecting growing pains that could last until the middle of the season, who would you to with? I think the x-factor is Barnett in that would it be worth it to waste a
year of eligibility for him if he can give you the same things as JT or Steele if we think we're going to be a 5 win team. We could get 4-5 wins out of him by letting the run-first offense lead us until he's comfortable. Now you have 3 more years of a guy with experience. I know it all sounds good with Steele and I'm on board if that's how CPR wants it. But, if we don't get anymore out of him or JT than we can with Barnett or even Capello, it's a wasted year of Maturity and advancement for the Cyclones. If Steele or JT gets it done, then everything is a mute point. That's my opinion.

How do you know which one will make the right decisions?? It is a fine line sometimes between victory and defeat.

I would go with the guy who I thought would make the most rapid improvement and had the highest potential. Because wins and a bowl game would be the best thing for the program long term. And the sooner the better.

 

[TheCity]

It will take more than a great QB to get 7-10 wins. The whole offense needs to step it up including the OC and WR corp.

You evidently don't like the WR corp:wink:

 

[Rural]

The thread is teetering on the brink, someone made a "mute point".

 

[tazclone]

You evidently don't like the WR corp:wink:

LOL. No, I am not impressed but note, I said "whole offense" and I called out the OC as well. I like the potential of the WR's but potential doesn't mean squat without actually showing it. A receiver's number one job is to "receive" the ball and we had WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to many drops. That to me is just unacceptable and I don't think you would disagree. The Mizzou game was sickening but it wasn't the first time we saw drops.

Blocking was inconsistent as well. We had penalties that erased big plays because we were blocking early. We had complete whiffs. We had, what looked like, half hearted effort. I say "looked like" because it could be possible they were just out manned. At times they blocked very well... other times, not so much. If teams are going to play press coverage then there is no reason we shouldn't be able to effective block them.

Route running/getting knocked off routes is really something us fans can only speculate about. You would have more insight than anyone on the board as you can ask the question but you and I discussed this earlier and I think we agreed it could improve. There is no doubt we have trouble getting off press coverage and I have seen guys get knocked off short timing routes. Some of that falls on the OC and perhaps Arnaud's inabilities handcuffed the offense more than I think. I have also seen cleaner routes than what our guys run. We rarely saw separation from our receivers. We saw guys find opening in zone but we rarely saw our receivers beat their guy one on one. For young guys or guys new to the position, that is understandable but we had two guys starting that had been doing it for a long time.

I have always said the QB play needs to improve and maybe Arnaud handcuffed the offense more than I think but people seem to give every other unit a pass. In the end, every unit needs to improve. This offense was ranked in the 90's in every offensive category except rushing(72nd). Fact is, they were not good and IMO, it is going to take more than a change in QB to see significant improvement in the offense. The whole offense needs to step it up. I point out the other units because a majority of the fans think a QB is all we need.

 

[FootballinTexas]

The thread is teetering on the brink, someone made a "mute point".

Automatic spell check on the I-phone 4. "Moot" or "Mute", either way we're not hearing each other and that's not debatable.

 

[FootballinTexas]

How do you know which one will make the right decisions?? It is a fine line sometimes between victory and defeat.

I would go with the guy who I thought would make the most rapid improvement and had the highest potential. Because wins and a bowl game would be the best thing for the program long term. And the sooner the better.

You don't know which one will make the right decisions because no QB at any level makes the right decision every time. As an OC, you have to put QB's in the right position to make the "best" decision. That comes from situational play calling.

I agree with your point that the QB with the highest potential and gives you the best ROI should be the guy...even if it's a small percentage of difference in them. That's were the intangibles: leadership, study habits, work ethic, and teamwork come to play. Most importantly, the QB has to be a guy that the rest of the offense will play for.

 

[BooneCy]

Automatic spell check on the I-phone 4. "Moot" or "Mute", either way we're not hearing each other and that's not debatable.

it's "MOOT"! Sorry, its a pet peeve of mine.

 

[FootballinTexas]

it's "MOOT"! Sorry, its a pet peeve of mine.

I know that its moot. However, It's not life or death.

 

[Rural]

LOL. No, I am not impressed but note, I said "whole offense" and I called out the OC as well. I like the potential of the WR's but potential doesn't mean squat without actually showing it. A receiver's number one job is to "receive" the ball and we had WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to many drops. That to me is just unacceptable and I don't think you would disagree. The Mizzou game was sickening but it wasn't the first time we saw drops.

Blocking was inconsistent as well. We had penalties that erased big plays because we were blocking early. We had complete whiffs. We had, what looked like, half hearted effort. I say "looked like" because it could be possible they were just out manned. At times they blocked very well... other times, not so much. If teams are going to play press coverage then there is no reason we shouldn't be able to effective block them.

Route running/getting knocked off routes is really something us fans can only speculate about. You would have more insight than anyone on the board as you can ask the question but you and I discussed this earlier and I think we agreed it could improve. There is no doubt we have trouble getting off press coverage and I have seen guys get knocked off short timing routes. Some of that falls on the OC and perhaps Arnaud's inabilities handcuffed the offense more than I think. I have also seen cleaner routes than what our guys run. We rarely saw separation from our receivers. We saw guys find opening in zone but we rarely saw our receivers beat their guy one on one. For young guys or guys new to the position, that is understandable but we had two guys starting that had been doing it for a long time.

I have always said the QB play needs to improve and maybe Arnaud handcuffed the offense more than I think but people seem to give every other unit a pass. In the end, every unit needs to improve. This offense was ranked in the 90's in every offensive category except rushing(72nd). Fact is, they were not good and IMO, it is going to take more than a change in QB to see significant improvement in the offense. The whole offense needs to step it up. I point out the other units because a majority of the fans think a QB is all we need.

Whoever the kid was, doing color commentary, on the Mizzou game, showed replays of our receivers on at least three different occasions during the course of the game and for lack of a better word, it was sickening. They didn't appear to even try.

They'd come off the line, the Mizzou defenders would grab them and they'd stop. End of story.

 

[TheCity]

Whoever the kid was, doing color commentary, on the Mizzou game, showed replays of our receivers on at least three different occasions during the course of the game and for lack of a better word, it was sickening. They didn't appear to even try.

They'd come off the line, the Mizzou defenders would grab them and they'd stop. End of story.

Hmmm...understood.
And tazclone, point made. My question then becomes this: At what point is coaching or the lack of a factor? Not making excuses for the players, but how could we go a whole season (or two) and still not be able to get off a press? Are they really THAT bad? Its puzzles me because of the comments and remarks made by Rhoads and Arnuad and then the turn around lack of production on the field. I have seen practices where our WR's seem to be doing things that we dream to see them do on Saturdays, then when Saturday comes its like totally different people. Confusing. :twitcy:
I don't know if anyone else was at the Texas game, but if you saw the efforts and excitement of the WR's you know that they evidently have it in them to wanna succeed. We just need them to come to play the entire season. The QB battle is going to directly effect the WR's and I pray that its for the positive. Offensively we gotta find an identity before the fall. And then we gotta stick with it. If anyone remembers the spring game we spread the ball around VERY well. Does that mean that our WR's are great or our DB's are bad? Neither. But it gave the perception that our passing game was improving. All summer we heard of success and growth in that area as well....but when the season started it was like my 7 year old knew what we were gonna run before we ran it. I think we have a better team than we're showing. That's just my opinion and I'll boldly stand by that. I pray that we find our rhythym and identity early.
Come on CYCLONES let's get it!!!:yes:

 

[Tre4ISU]

Hmmm...understood.
And tazclone, point made. My question then becomes this: At what point is coaching or the lack of a factor? Not making excuses for the players, but how could we go a whole season (or two) and still not be able to get off a press? Are they really THAT bad? Its puzzles me because of the comments and remarks made by Rhoads and Arnuad and then the turn around lack of production on the field. I have seen practices where our WR's seem to be doing things that we dream to see them do on Saturdays, then when Saturday comes its like totally different people. Confusing. :twitcy:
I don't know if anyone else was at the Texas game, but if you saw the efforts and excitement of the WR's you know that they evidently have it in them to wanna succeed. We just need them to come to play the entire season. The QB battle is going to directly effect the WR's and I pray that its for the positive. Offensively we gotta find an identity before the fall. And then we gotta stick with it. If anyone remembers the spring game we spread the ball around VERY well. Does that mean that our WR's are great or our DB's are bad? Neither. But it gave the perception that our passing game was improving. All summer we heard of success and growth in that area as well....but when the season started it was like my 7 year old knew what we were gonna run before we ran it. I think we have a better team than we're showing. That's just my opinion and I'll boldly stand by that. I pray that we find our rhythym and identity early.
Come on CYCLONES let's get it!!!:yes:

I think we're getting close and it's not on Herman IMO. There is no reason Sed shouldn't have been better. There's no reason Money shouldn't have been better and there's no reason Darks hasn't progressed.

 

[Wesley]

Tiller and obviously then, he should not be playing because of his HS completion percentage.

He may have had clutzy receivers.

 

[Cyclophile1]

it's "MOOT"! Sorry, its a pet peeve of mine.

Don’t make the poster an escape goat on this topic. We see this in all woks of life, and I’m agreed we need to nip this in the butt. For all intensive purposes, we know what he’s saying, so I could care less. We take it for granite that folks will know what we are conveyance. It’s a doggy dog world of language though, so we shouldn’t get bent into shape by this and others like it, egg sedera.

​

 

[tazclone]

Hmmm...understood.
And tazclone, point made. My question then becomes this: At what point is coaching or the lack of a factor? Not making excuses for the players, but how could we go a whole season (or two) and still not be able to get off a press? Are they really THAT bad? Its puzzles me because of the comments and remarks made by Rhoads and Arnuad and then the turn around lack of production on the field. I have seen practices where our WR's seem to be doing things that we dream to see them do on Saturdays, then when Saturday comes its like totally different people. Confusing. :twitcy:
I don't know if anyone else was at the Texas game, but if you saw the efforts and excitement of the WR's you know that they evidently have it in them to wanna succeed. We just need them to come to play the entire season. The QB battle is going to directly effect the WR's and I pray that its for the positive. Offensively we gotta find an identity before the fall. And then we gotta stick with it. If anyone remembers the spring game we spread the ball around VERY well. Does that mean that our WR's are great or our DB's are bad? Neither. But it gave the perception that our passing game was improving. All summer we heard of success and growth in that area as well....but when the season started it was like my 7 year old knew what we were gonna run before we ran it. I think we have a better team than we're showing. That's just my opinion and I'll boldly stand by that. I pray that we find our rhythym and identity early.
Come on CYCLONES let's get it!!!:yes:

Careful...you can't criticize the staff on here. They are untouchable.

Keep in mind that I have been critical of the OC and offensive staff all along. I am absolutely baffled at the lack of improvement in some areas and I am not a big fan of our play calling.
Like I said, all facets of the offense need to improve. When that is the case then the staff is responsible. There isn't one unit that didn't fail the team this year with RB being probably the most consistent group. If the receivers and QB executed, the OL got called for a penalty. If the OL and QB executed, the WR dropped the ball, if the OL and WR executed then the QB missed. Take your pick but all of these happened equally this year. When the team doesn't seem to operate on the same page then that falls on the staff.

I have seen you hint about the players being excited about doing different things in practice but then gametime comes and we never see them. I question why? Why so vanilla?

I hear what you are saying. Don't take that as me calling for heads but the offensive staff needs to do a better job. And when I say I am taking a "wait and see approach" a lot of that has to do with my lack of confidence in the offensive staff to develop players and put together a game plan.