Staying at 10?

[ricochet]

The extra conference game.*

*Not my personal opinion.

Why does a 10 team league require an extra conference game? We could play 8 conference games with 10 or 12 teams. We could play 9 conference games with 10 or 12 teams.

Maybe we should propose expanding to 12 teams and play 11 conference games plus Iowa just to shut up the people thinking 12 teams equals 4 non conference games.

 

[MaccloNe]

Why does the conference need more than ten teams?

Do you honestly think we can survive with 10? Get to 12 or 14 and poach what we need. Kill or be killed.

 

[Cyhart]

It was not long ago that TTU and OSU were average programs, while KU and MU were fighting for BCS spots. In fact TTU and UT are rather average right now. Things change, and can again.

Yeah, thats certainly true.
I think 12 teams is better for stability. And I would bet you a bucket of chicken that CPR would rather go to 12 teams. And thats the ultimate trump card. It doesnt matter to any of us as much as it matters to him.

 

[weR138]

Why does a 10 team league require an extra conference game? We could play 8 conference games with 10 or 12 teams. We could play 9 conference games with 10 or 12 teams.

Maybe we should propose expanding to 12 teams and play 11 conference games plus Iowa just to shut up the people thinking 12 teams equals 4 non conference games.

It doesn't.

 

[jbhtexas]

Do you honestly think we can survive with 10? Get to 12 or 14 and poach what we need. Kill or be killed.

So how does 12 or 14 prevent teams from getting poached? It doesn't. If it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because at one time, the Big 12 had 12 members.

It's not about the number of schools, it's about the attitudes that the members have towards each other and towards the conference.

 

[Bestaluckcy]

This doenst make sense either. We wouldnt play every team in the Big 12 with the divisional format. Just like we didnt before.
Simple logic suggests the fewer schools we play with the word "Texas" or "Oklahoma" in their name, the better.

In a 12 team format you play 5 teams in your division plus at least 3 teams of the other division maybe 4 and also the best team of the other 6. You have to be better than 11 other teams in my opinion. In a ten team format you only have to be better than 9 other teams. So why does divisional play make it easier to win a championship again?

 

[Cyhart]

In a 12 team format you play 5 teams in your division plus at least 3 teams of the other division maybe 4 and also the best team of the other 6. You have to be better than 11 other teams in my opinion. In a ten team format you only have to be better than 9 other teams. So why does divisional play make it easier to win a championship again?

Are you serious? You cant be.......

 

[Cyhart]

In a 12 team format you play 5 teams in your division plus at least 3 teams of the other division maybe 4 and also the best team of the other 6. You have to be better than 11 other teams in my opinion. In a ten team format you only have to be better than 9 other teams. So why does divisional play make it easier to win a championship again?

You are considering 9 generic teams. We can be better than 345 teams, but what matters is, are we better than all the teams in the "Big 12 south" in any given year? Not likely.
Much better to play their "winner" on a given day in a title game where flukes can happen.

 

[CloneAggie]

So how does 12 or 14 prevent teams from getting poached? It doesn't. If it did, we wouldn't be having the conversation, because at one time, the Big 12 had 12 members.

It's not about the number of schools, it's about the attitudes that the members have towards each other.

An argument could be made that with more members, you have a greater ability to withstand the poaching.

 

[Bestaluckcy]

Are you serious? You cant be.......

The only time you will not play Texas or Oklahoma in a divisional format is when they are not as good as someone else. In which case you will play the better team if you want to be Big 12 champion. Yes I am serious.

 

[Frak]

So how does 12 or 14 prevent teams from getting poached? It doesn't. If it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because at one time, the Big 12 had 12 members.

It's not about the number of schools, it's about the attitudes that the members have towards each other and towards the conference.

Like it or not, nationally to be at the big boy table, you have to have at least 12 teams. That's the way things are these days. Here's what I think should happen depending on if Mizzou leaves:

1. Mizzou bolts: Add BYU, Louisville and Tulane immediately. Play with 11 until Louisville is able to join.

2. Mizzou stays: Add BYU and Louisville immediately. Play with 11 until Louisville is able to join.

If playing with 12 means that each team makes $23M vs $25M, I'm all for it.

 

[Cyhart]

The only time you will not play Texas or Oklahoma in a divisional format is when they are not as good as someone else. In which case you will play the better team if you want to be Big 12 champion. Yes I am serious.

Yeah, in a title game. Where anything can happen.
What is more likely, beating Texas or beating Texas and Oklahoma?

 

[rebecacy]

Nope. And as i recall one of the local papers down there obtained emails showing OU was surprised it got shot down by the PAC. They were fully ready to go, theyre only here because the PAC shot them down and they dont have other options. Now theyre going to try to make the best of the big 12 and start their own network.

The monday after UNI I told you what the OU pres was going to do and he did exactly that nearly 2 weeks later. Nice dinner at The Knoll when the strategy was discussed. Believe what you want. TX had to get off it's high horse and they had to be scared into doing it. And I fully accept that there were lower level folks at OU, who did not know what was going on, that were taken by surprise and wrote emails ---- they're called pawns. That's how this stuff works. OU never had any intention of going anywhere. Stoops believes the best way to a national championship is through the Big XII. That is OU's one and only goal in all this, money follows big winners. Exactly what I said the Monday after UNI. And it is a fact!!

 

[gocubs2118]

I fail to understand why it is going to be so easy to win the Big 12 if we go back to 12 or more teams. I seriously doubt if the old big 12 north is ever resurrected without Colorado and Nebraska being part of the conference. I would rather think we will most likely have a setup more similar to the Big 10 whereby it is not strictly geographical. We could well end up in a division with whereby we play at least one of Texas and Oklahoma if not both. I think it is easier year in and year out to be better than 9 other teams than it is to best 11 other teams. Simple logic suggests this.

We have not even given the ten team format a chance. I do know good recruits like to play good teams. Give CPR a chance to run with the big dogs. In three or four years, we all may be surprised.

Huh? How isn't it easier to beat 5 teams than it is 9 teams? That is simple logic.

 

[IcSyU]

Anybody that thinks Iowa State has an easier path to a conference championship or BCS game in the round robin versus the divisional format is an idiot.

Would you prefer to have to beat four out of five (probably minimum) of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, and Texas A&M or have the chance to avoid all of the big boys until the title game. It will take 0 or 1 loss in most years to win the conference in this format. Before you could lose 3 games and still get into the Big 12 title game. You could afford to lose to the OUs/Texas' of the world because chances were everyone else would too. You had to get lucky once. Now you can't slip up at all.

 

[jbhtexas]

An argument could be made that with more members, you have a greater ability to withstand the poaching.

This concept of poaching teams from conferences is rather a misnomer. These teams generally aren't stolen or taken from their conferences against their wills. They are, at least in the case of the Big 12 with NU, TAMU CU, and MU, actively seeking other conferences/options because of issues (whether legit or not) that they see with their current conferences.

The Big 12 could add 8 more teams, but if revenue sharing was still unequal, the conference would still be unattractive to some existing members.

 

[jbhtexas]

Like it or not, nationally to be at the big boy table, you have to have at least 12 teams. That's the way things are these days.

Says who? How does having 12 teams magically put you at the big boy table?

 

[Bestaluckcy]

Yeah, in a title game. Where anything can happen.
What is more likely, beating Texas or beating Texas and Oklahoma?

I would rather play them in a regular season game where CPR has shown anything can happen. They have more experience playing in a championship game than we do. Anything can happen in a regular season game also. You still have to be better than 11 teams in your divisional format vs being better than 9 teams in the current big 12

 

[MaccloNe]

Why does the conference need more than ten teams?

Do you honestly think we can survive with 10? Get to 12 or 14 and poach what we need. Kill or be killed.

 

[CloneAggie]

This concept of poaching teams from conferences is rather a misnomer. These teams generally aren't stolen or taken from their conferences against their wills. They are, at least in the case of the Big 12 with NU, TAMU CU, and NU, actively seeking other conferences because of issues (whether legit or not) that they see with their current conferences.

The Big 12 could add 8 more teams, but if revenue sharing was still unequal, the conference would still be unattractive to some existing members.

This completely misses my point. We are on the verge of losing the fourth team out of the original B12 (for whatever reason, the poaching terminology I used was used by you which was used by the person you quoted ... who cares about the terminology). Had we started with fewer teams, losing four may have been more difficult to withstand.

Or consider this. If we add TCU, BYU, Louisville, and West Virginia to get back up to 12, we would be in a better position to withstand the loss of the four Pac12 flirters that if we were to just add two of TCU, BYU, UL, WVU.