AuH2O

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I think consensus from national media view was that the locker room pretty much got away from Rice and he brought in too many guys that were in it for themselves only.
He didn't take over for Rice, he took over for Menzies who won 4, 8 and 11 MWC games in his three years and had a lot of guys returning for what would've been his 4th season. Then he got kicked to the curb when UNLV was hiring Beard.
Lots of guys transferred out (and in). I don't know if that was just guys leaving due to the coaching change, which is typical, or if TJ thought he needed to clean house.

But the idea that the year before TJ, the locker room got away from Menzies doesn't seem legit. They went 5-2 their last seven MWC regular season games, then lost in the 4/5 game to San Diego St. in the MWC tournament. That doesn't really fit the profile of a locker room getting away from the coach.
 

clonehenge

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TJ just finished his second year at UNLV and only coached three seasons at SDSU. Judging a coach's winning percentage off of not even having a full four years to fully establish his own system with all of his own guys is a lousy metric to use. Steve Prohm inherited a gold mine at Iowa State, getting a roster with 4 NBA players. Every year the team has gotten worse and worse. Prohm was running it into the ground. Otz has never had a head coaching gig at a single school for more than three years. This comparison really isn't close at all.

TJ is definitely better than Prohm. TJ recruits far better and he didn't put a 2 win team out there that was completely lost due to bad coaching and bad leadership.
Give me some proof that TJ is "definitely better" based on facts and analytics as opposed to you being subjective and I'd be on your side.

But until then there's no way you can say that TJ is better...as you pointed out above, TJ hasn't been at one school long enough to get an accurate reading of his system or it's success. So if you're going to argue it's not a good way to measure career winning percentage, then it also isn't a good way to proclaim that he's far better than another coach.
 

CascadeClone

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I kinda liked him when initially discussed, but as I dug in a little he seems underwhelming. I think he is a decent coach but the drive isn't there anymore. If you want to be OK but not great, he is a safe and expensive choice.

Think I'd rather gamble on a young guy - higher risk but higher reward.
 
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LLCoolJansma

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I'm on board with team TJ Otzleberger. I actually think he'd be great. Too many are focused on this seasons record with UNLV. When my packers hired Matt Lafluer his offense at Tennessee wasn't very good. He's been a great head coach there. He certaintly wasn't a flashy hire. I trust Pollard.
I can get behind TJ for the reasons you state if Jamie is going the MidMajor route.
TJ wasn't hired when Fred left was due to a lack of HC experience. He now has 5 years though with mixed results. I have a hard time holding UNLV record against him though due to him winning year 1 without his players and this year being a reset as he built (+covid). With the recruits he had committed I do think he'll have a bounce back year at UNLV and be sought after in a year or two. Of the Mid Major options TJ would likely have the best chance on recruiting talent early and the assist needed for ISU. Plus he could be named early to get a jump on keeping some of the current roster and high level transfers from other schools.

I don't think this should be done with out a full search though. We may end up with TJ regardless but due diligence on numerous canidates is needed with the plan presented on how to win at ISU.

My main concern is getting the program back competing and in my mind that is a established P5 coach. Money is the issue there. Not only paying for the name, buyout and their assistants (who many don't mention). It will take the Gates/Smith's/DeVeries types longer to sell ISU as they adust to Hilton/Big12.
 
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Urbandale2013

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So just to clarify, your number one choice ranks above a 2 time conference coach of the year, and a coach who just gave your number one pick a 20 point beatdown this week in the conference tournament?
The Smith-TJ debate extends well past this year. Did you listen to the podcast?

TJ is 6-5 all time against Craig Smith including 2-3 at UNLV. Utah State is in a much better position this year no doubt, but we aren't asking who has the better team this year. Smith is likely better at X's and O's, but the question is how well does he translate to Iowa State. I think he can, but it is a concern.

My concerns with DeVries are more about whether he would be interested and what we would have to pay him to come. I think in order to get him we will have to overpay.

That said I would be really happy with any of the 5 I listed.
 

ISUChippewa

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The entire discussion on this board is whether TJ is good enough or not. He is. That doesn't make him my first choice. Fred is. TJ SHOULD have been hired in 2015. That would have given us the best chance to maximize the potential of our roster. I'm not sure now is the right time to hire him because the incompetent that we hired has driven this program so far into the ground I'm not sure who besides a "name" is going to have the cred to get us out of the mess. Fred is the only "name" on the board. I want him. If we can't get him the the rest are probably all the same. However, the guy with the next best chance of fixing the mess is a guy who has a genuine love for the Iowa State. One man defending his home is worth 10 hired soldiers. That's how Matt Campbell did it. He has a genuine love for this place. TJ APPEARS to have that same kind of affinity. Steve Prohm never did. He had a love for the check. He'd have taken any job the year we hired him. Would TJ take any job right now? To really fix this situation it has to be done as a labor of love. Does Dennis Gates love Iowa State? Craig Smith? Just because guys can win some place doesn't mean they can other places. Winning 20 games this year is meaningless. Iowa State is a different situation. A different University with different people. Everyone has to be pulling in the same direction and it has to be FOR something.
This is just really simplistic and as much as I generally like "old school" thinking, this belief that only an Iowa State guy can fix what's wrong with the program is a really flawed way of thinking about it. Plus the mean-spirited digs at Prohm are really off-putting (much of like what you post and how you generally behave on here). Prohm was obviously not the right long-term fit at Iowa State, but for you to constantly try and lecture us on how he never loved the place is again, pure bullsh!t. If he didn't come to love Iowa State then he never would have organized the alumni weekend, and FWIW I really hope the new coach, TJ or whoever else, keeps that in place.
 

AuH2O

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Medved is just a non-starter though. Basketball wise I think he is a pretty good coach, but he just burnt bridges in central Iowa.

I agree with you on Moser. I don't want to say he couldn't be successful here, but I don't think he'd be interested and I think to an extent he just has the perfect situation.

When it comes to the big names I just don't think we are willing to pay for them or really have the confidence they would be all in.

My list is really below.
  1. TJ
  2. Smith
  3. DeVries
  4. Nagy
  5. Gates
Why would anyone consider Medved burning bridges? Because he left ******* Drake? The MVC looked like it was destined for permanent one-bid league status at the time, and Medved was supposed to pass up a jump to a much better league, a big payday and a head job where he was an assistant out of loyalty for Drake? That's ridiculous. Burned bridges with who, idiot local yokel sports media?

DeVries and Moser have pulled off a damn-near miracle of getting an at-large out of that conference. For the same reason NOBODY should hold it against Moser or DeVries for heading to a better job.
 

Urbandale2013

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Why would anyone consider Medved burning bridges? Because he left ******* Drake? The MVC looked like it was destined for permanent one-bid league status at the time, and Medved was supposed to pass up a jump to a much better league, a big payday and a head job where he was an assistant out of loyalty for Drake? That's ridiculous. Burned bridges with who, idiot local yokel sports media?

DeVries and Moser have pulled off a damn-near miracle of getting an at-large out of that conference. For the same reason NOBODY should hold it against Moser or DeVries for heading to a better job.
Local media and Pollard. I just don't think he would consider him. I think the doing it the right way statement was a shot at him. It wasn't that he left, although I think one year was a bit rough, it was how he left.
 

Neptune78

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I think Collins is in legal trouble. Killed someone in a car accident. May be in jail next year. UNLV pulled the offer I believe.
Collins was cleared by the Grand Jury of all serious charges and I believe the remaining charge was then dropped. TJ did pull the offer right after the accident. I haven't seen who is now involved with Collins' recruitment.
 

mynameisjonas

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It's pretty hypocritical for anyone who complains about head coaching resumes to support someone like Tang.
18 years helping build Baylor into a consistent top 25 program, almost 2 decades of p5 experience, was there for 4 sweet 16‘s and 2 elite 8’s, helped put together consistent top 25 recruiting classes. Emphasizes rebounding and defense and recruiting tough players. Mentored by Scott Drew who has proven to be a fantastic coach.
 
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NorthCyd

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18 years helping build Baylor into a consistent top 25 program, almost 2 decades of p5 experience, was there for 4 sweet 16‘s and 2 elite 8’s, helped put together consistent top 25 recruiting classes.
None of this is relevant to my point.
 

AuH2O

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The entire discussion on this board is whether TJ is good enough or not. He is. That doesn't make him my first choice. Fred is. TJ SHOULD have been hired in 2015. That would have given us the best chance to maximize the potential of our roster. I'm not sure now is the right time to hire him because the incompetent that we hired has driven this program so far into the ground I'm not sure who besides a "name" is going to have the cred to get us out of the mess. Fred is the only "name" on the board. I want him. If we can't get him the the rest are probably all the same. However, the guy with the next best chance of fixing the mess is a guy who has a genuine love for the Iowa State. One man defending his home is worth 10 hired soldiers. That's how Matt Campbell did it. He has a genuine love for this place. TJ APPEARS to have that same kind of affinity. Steve Prohm never did. He had a love for the check. He'd have taken any job the year we hired him. Would TJ take any job right now? To really fix this situation it has to be done as a labor of love. Does Dennis Gates love Iowa State? Craig Smith? Just because guys can win some place doesn't mean they can other places. Winning 20 games this year is meaningless. Iowa State is a different situation. A different University with different people. Everyone has to be pulling in the same direction and it has to be FOR something.
So you are going to use Campbell as your example of the importance of bringing in a guy that loves ISU because the extent of his ISU ties were being impressed bringing Toledo here once? Most coaches that are midwest guys that love college basketball are likely to love Hilton and the passionate fanbase. ISU has only lost coaches because they went to the NBA, got canned, or were on the verge of getting canned when the Creighton lifeline came. The closest reported case of a guy leaving ISU for another college job was the one guy with ISU ties and "love." And not for a blueblood, but the freaking Gophers.
 
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CyLyte2

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This is just really simplistic and as much as I generally like "old school" thinking, this belief that only an Iowa State guy can fix what's wrong with the program is a really flawed way of thinking about it. Plus the mean-spirited digs at Prohm are really off-putting (much of like what you post and how you generally behave on here). Prohm was obviously not the right long-term fit at Iowa State, but for you to constantly try and lecture us on how he never loved the place is again, pure bullsh!t. If he didn't come to love Iowa State then he never would have organized the alumni weekend, and FWIW I really hope the new coach, TJ or whoever else, keeps that in place.
If he'd have gone somewhere else he'd have organized the same thing there. It's about making yourself harder to fire. And that's the great thing about the truth, it's "simplistic". We aren't talking about brain surgery or advanced rocketry here. In sports the most important thing you can do to be successful is get the kids to pay attention. From little kid sports all the way to professional the way to win is focus and motivation. Everybody's X&Os work on paper. It's getting kids to understand that when they think they are working hard they usually aren't and getting them to play FOR something. That's where Prohm failed. His recruiting was good enough but he never assembled a TEAM and got them to play for something bigger than themselves.
 
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