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AuH2O

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Sep 7, 2013
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Giving up 2 special team TD's is very frustrating. They are such big momentum shifters. So if getting better in the margins means better special teams, we better get things figured out quickly. We were also fortunate on the muffed punt and personal foul didn't hurt ISU.

But I look at 2 area's that are not "Margin" issues that were as big of reasons ISU lost.
  • Our OL was just OK. Mainly against the run. It has been mentioned a lot that after Downing went out we struggled. That really shouldn't happen when ISU is playing Louisiana. Maybe against against a Texas or OU losing your best lineman makes a noticeable impact- but not most teams. Especially in pass protection.
  • We just lack a smash mouth mentality on both offense and defense. We just seem very reactionary and passive. Louisiana was a good team, but we should have been playing with a lot more swagger.
The 3-3-5 has been a good defense. But I feel that its kryptonite are teams with power run games, mobile QB or strong flair/screen game. IMO our talent on the DL has progressed that we should be playing a 4 man line 75% of the time or more. Go with a 4-2-5 and adjust the personnel on the back end depending on down/distance. Seems to me we have the talent on the d-line to be an aggressive defense that can dominate the line of scrimmage, put a little fear into the QB and create turnovers.
Generally speaking Heacock's defense, and probably more specifically the personnel that are recruited and developed to play in it are not as well suited to stop power run game-oriented offenses. But unless you have top athletes, that's going to be the case for everybody, so you play defense, recruit, and develop in a way that best suits most of your opponents.
You can't be geared to stop every type of offense, so you build a defense to stop what a majority of conference teams are doing offensively, and try to gameplan and execute your way through the Iowa and K-State games. Pretty much every team outside of the elite programs has to work that way. It's sort of like how Iowa's better defenses would still struggle against 6 win Northwestern teams running the spread and using the horizontal passing game.
 

AuH2O

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2013
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Notre Dame prepared very well for last year's bowl game and knew exactly what we were going to do... they took the crossing routes away and the offense really struggled. No offense to Tom Manning, but we need a whole new playbook. The talent is there... well, maybe not on the o-line, but we have some nice weapons.

I love that we FINALLY have a QB sneak in the playbook.
One thing I did not like is how we had Milton running around in the backfield pre-snap. With his speed he should be up on the line of scrimmage and running mostly medium and deep routes. Last year was great because opponents had to pay close attention to him because of how fast he is, and that allowed Deshante to work those underneath routes all the time... well, until defenses learned to take away the crossing routes, as you mentioned. Milton averaged 20 yards per catch last year so let him go down the field!
It's oversimplified, but ask any defensive coach, and they f'ing hate defending RPO. If you have a QB that understands it and can execute, as Purdy has shown he can, you will have some success on offense. I don't blame the coaches for minimizing it to try to reduce hits on Purdy, but it is really hard to defend. They still use a fair amount of straight read option in the running game, but RPO seems to be really minimized.

Other than 3rd and long, the defense with Heacock under Campbell is really incredible. Teams with lesser talent have been successful on offense in college football all the time, but it's pretty rare to see it on defense. I think Campbell is a great CEO of a program, but I do think this program is leaning heavily on Heacock.

Special teams have been horrible, and the offense has been inconsistent. They produced last year statistically, but first, the combination of ISU being a historically terrible program, particularly in the passing game, combined with the current rules and officiating set up to make offense, esp. passing, VERY easy diminishes that accomplishment to a large extent. Throw in being poor in the margins, and the offense has not held up its end of the bargain.
 

yowza

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Jun 2, 2016
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It's oversimplified, but ask any defensive coach, and they f'ing hate defending RPO. If you have a QB that understands it and can execute, as Purdy has shown he can, you will have some success on offense. I don't blame the coaches for minimizing it to try to reduce hits on Purdy, but it is really hard to defend. They still use a fair amount of straight read option in the running game, but RPO seems to be really minimized.

Other than 3rd and long, the defense with Heacock under Campbell is really incredible. Teams with lesser talent have been successful on offense in college football all the time, but it's pretty rare to see it on defense. I think Campbell is a great CEO of a program, but I do think this program is leaning heavily on Heacock.

Special teams have been horrible, and the offense has been inconsistent. They produced last year statistically, but first, the combination of ISU being a historically terrible program, particularly in the passing game, combined with the current rules and officiating set up to make offense, esp. passing, VERY easy diminishes that accomplishment to a large extent. Throw in being poor in the margins, and the offense has not held up its end of the bargain.
especially when they let linemen continue to block downfield on what becomes a pass play.
 
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jbhtexas

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2006
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Arlington, TX
Didn't we set a bunch of school records for point and yards per game last year? The offense was good. The "margins" were awful. Turnover differential, penalties and special teams is where we lost games. That also includes the defense creating very few turnovers last year.

Failures in the margins were just as big a problem on defense as they were offense last year. But, the biggest culprit was, and still is special teams.
Yes, the ISU offense set records last year, and had some big scores. They also had four games with 21 or less points scored that resulted in losses, and only scored 13 against UNI in regulation.
 

clonedude

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2006
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Yes, the ISU offense set records last year, and had some big scores. They also had four games with 21 or less points scored that resulted in losses, and only scored 13 against UNI in regulation.
That was against some REALLY bad defenses too in the Big 12 and in the non con.

13 pts against UNI in regulation says everything you need to know.

I don't think a lot of people realize just how ultra conservative CMC is. He's probably more conservative than even KF is at this point. It really ticks me off.

4.1 yds per catch is just flat out embarrassing.... and you cannot win doing that unless you are just running over the opposing team on the ground and don't even need to throw the ball.

Why are we bringing in 6'5" WR's that can run like deer..... if we're just going to throw quick slants, or quick outs all day? Same goes for the TE's.

We have to be a DC's dream..... so predictable and easy to defend. No surprises at all. Don't make you defend the entire field whatsoever. But it's pretty much always been that way. It is awful offense, sorry.
 

clonehoodie

Active Member
May 14, 2017
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Looking at the punt return......i know you want other guys on the field that normally don't play.......but the punt coverage group doesn't look very.......how to put this......athletic ? They look slow.
 

madguy30

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Nov 15, 2011
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That was against some REALLY bad defenses too in the Big 12 and in the non con.

13 pts against UNI in regulation says everything you need to know.

I don't think a lot of people realize just how ultra conservative CMC is. He's probably more conservative than even KF is at this point. It really ticks me off.

4.1 yds per catch is just flat out embarrassing.... and you cannot win doing that unless you are just running over the opposing team on the ground and don't even need to throw the ball.

Why are we bringing in 6'5" WR's that can run like deer..... if we're just going to throw quick slants, or quick outs all day? Same goes for the TE's.

We have to be a DC's dream..... so predictable and easy to defend. No surprises at all. Don't make you defend the entire field whatsoever. But it's pretty much always been that way. It is awful offense, sorry.
I'm not seeing this out of ISU's WRs.
 

Frak

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It's maddening to me that with all the margins talk, the ISU team the past few years has played the exact opposite. Dumb mistakes and penalties. Turnovers and dropping picks on defense. Does anyone (or the team) even know what winning in the margins even means? Because it's definitely not translating on the field.
 

ArgentCy

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Jan 13, 2010
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The offense is better than the years of up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt. But not much.
 
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atlantacyclone

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Sep 29, 2007
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The margins are a mile wide for the O. The D looked good for the most part. Our receivers either aren’t getting open or the line isn’t allowing us time to pass...
 

CapnCy

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Jul 6, 2010
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I don't like the term as it implies we are always on shakey ground and can win/lose based on one or two things

I am a firm believer in taking care of small things (i.e. 3rd and short that becomes 3rd and 7 because of a false start tend to lose games, etc)

Someone else said it, bit I was SO encouraged to see us go under center multiple times....as historically seemed we literally never did that and killed many drives, turned tds to fg attempts
 
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Al_4_State

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Mar 27, 2006
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Last year was squandered by horrible special teams (looks like that didn't change), a defense that was in the right place often but didn't make that many plays (margins), and untimely offensive penalties (margins). Our offensive scheme was pretty good most of last year.

Defense looks better, special teams has somehow gotten worse, and the offense sure didn't impress.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
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It's oversimplified, but ask any defensive coach, and they f'ing hate defending RPO. If you have a QB that understands it and can execute, as Purdy has shown he can, you will have some success on offense. I don't blame the coaches for minimizing it to try to reduce hits on Purdy, but it is really hard to defend. They still use a fair amount of straight read option in the running game, but RPO seems to be really minimized.

Other than 3rd and long, the defense with Heacock under Campbell is really incredible. Teams with lesser talent have been successful on offense in college football all the time, but it's pretty rare to see it on defense. I think Campbell is a great CEO of a program, but I do think this program is leaning heavily on Heacock.

Special teams have been horrible, and the offense has been inconsistent. They produced last year statistically, but first, the combination of ISU being a historically terrible program, particularly in the passing game, combined with the current rules and officiating set up to make offense, esp. passing, VERY easy diminishes that accomplishment to a large extent. Throw in being poor in the margins, and the offense has not held up its end of the bargain.
This is very well put right here.

It was still a 7-6 football team.
 
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Frak

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Apr 27, 2009
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I think that they need an uptick in talent. You can only go so far with diamonds in the rough. Unfortunately, our biggest selling point is culture followed by personality of the coaching staff and the campus and facilities and fanbase. But we're going to go through a whole recruiting cycle where we can't capitalize on those strengths. This year, teams can pretty much only recruit based on location, tradition and putting guys in the pros. Those are things that we don't score very well on.
 

clonehoodie

Active Member
May 14, 2017
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Margins:

The safeties might be 10 yards off the line of scrimmage, then run BACKWARDS (?) at the snap. I have never understood that.

The linebacker and the defensive backs that can't tackle.

If we ever have to play a non-Big 12 team again this year, we will be in trouble. "Look at how good our defense has been against the Big 12". Uh-huh.
 

heitclone

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Jun 21, 2009
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Yes, the ISU offense set records last year, and had some big scores. They also had four games with 21 or less points scored that resulted in losses, and only scored 13 against UNI in regulation.
I feel like Manning is a lot like Prohm. He's a really good coach, does well with prep leading up the game and when that goes well, he's as good as anyone but when the opposition adjusts and starts to stop him, he can't really adapt on the fly.
 
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madguy30

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Nov 15, 2011
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Margins:

The safeties might be 10 yards off the line of scrimmage, then run BACKWARDS (?) at the snap. I have never understood that.

The linebacker and the defensive backs that can't tackle.

If we ever have to play a non-Big 12 team again this year, we will be in trouble. "Look at how good our defense has been against the Big 12". Uh-huh.
I never notice this but if speed is an issue, they can't just match up and go toe to toe.