SATURDAY PODCAST: Ranking the Big 12 football coaches

Discussion in 'Football' started by JStanz51, May 13, 2017.

  1. JStanz51

    JStanz51 Administrator
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  2. Dopey

    Dopey Well-Known Member

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    I listened to this. Entertaining listen and I appreciate the extra podcast.

    But what the actual ****, Jared. If all the coaches after the top 3 are interchangeable, why put Campbell #8??

    Just kidding-ish.
     
  3. amishclone

    amishclone Well-Known Member

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    Haven't listened yet, but let's see, #1 is Snyder, #2 is Stoops, #3 is Patterson, #4 is Campbell, how am I doing so far?
     
  4. JRE1975

    JRE1975 Well-Known Member

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    Jared, tried to listen but it only plays the first 6:30 of the podcast, not sure if it is just me, but it shows the podcast as only 6:30.
     
  5. amishclone

    amishclone Well-Known Member

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    After listening and hearing the criteria they used, I'd rank them differently I guess. Although to be fair, Snyder still ought to be ranked a little higher. When has he ever done anything but exceed expectations?
     
  6. cyclones500

    cyclones500 Well-Known Member

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    My count-up (using the next-5-years criterion):
    10. Beaty
    9. Kingsbury
    8. Rhule
    7. Snyder
    6. Campbell
    5. Herman
    4. Holgorsen
    3. Patterson
    2. Gundy
    1. Stoops
     
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  7. CyFy

    CyFy Active Member

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    Jared having Campbell that low was funny. He argued saying that he saw the improved recruiting, but hasn't seen it on the field. He then argued the next coach as higher because he came into Baylor and put together a good class...

    I also agree with Chris on him. I have never seen a team improve more during a season. That is what has me so excited for the next couple of years
     
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  8. CyCloned

    CyCloned Well-Known Member

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    Guess it is easy to improve when you lay eggs like they did against UNI and Iowa, but I would agree that the team was much better by the end of the year. If they can come into this year as good as they ended last year, Clone fans will be happy with the season.
     
  9. MntneerLegion

    MntneerLegion Member

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    For some reason I can not get the player to launch. Are the criteria too long for someone to post? Please.
     
  10. guacamole7

    guacamole7 Member

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    Just download it, don't use the embedded player.
     
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  11. amishclone

    amishclone Well-Known Member

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    If I'm a Big 12 AD, which coach do i pick as coach for next 5 yrs?
     
  12. Cycsk

    Cycsk Well-Known Member

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    OK. But it would be nice if the embedded player actually worked better.
     
  13. cyclones500

    cyclones500 Well-Known Member

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    Until I heard CW's comment in the podcast, I was largely unaware of Snyder's push for his son as Heir to the HC Throne. Maybe that's a wild-card of continuity that could pay off, but I see it as being recipe for semi-disaster.

    KSU would be smart to look for somebody with (1) connection to K-State/Big 12/Midwest/Kansas area as player/coach/recruiter (2) head coaching experience or high-level assistant experience *somewhere*.

    Kansas State has done well enough for most of two decades, it could attract an up-and-comer who might closely replicate B.S. team-building approach.

    (I'm not an A.D., nor did I sleep in a hotel last night or play one on TV. But I believe I'm correct.) ;)
     
  14. jburke

    jburke Well-Known Member

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    Great listen, loving what you are doing on these Saturday pod's!!!!
     
  15. surly

    surly Well-Known Member

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    #15 surly, May 15, 2017
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
    I didn't listen. But if the criteria is next 5 years, here's how I'd rank them.

    10. Snyder - if he's here next season, we'll be pleased
    9. Kingsbury - I suspect he's out after losing at Ku this fall
    8. Beaty - no one talks a better game, which may be good enough for Ku
    7. Holgorsen - he was a bad season from being fired this time last year
    6. Rhule - unclear if Baylor is like Temple
    5. Campbell - looks right for the job
    4. Herman - see Campbell
    3. Patterson - his record speaks loudly
    2. Gundy - absolute match for oSu job and this conference - not sure skills would transfer
    1. Stoops - how could one argue this placement?

    If you do a best all time from current list, Snyder would be my #1.
    All-time greatest (all coaches) in this league - Bud Wilkerson, Dr. Tom, Bill Snyder, Barry Switzer, Bop Stoops.
     
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  16. MntneerLegion

    MntneerLegion Member

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    I think you've bought into the hype created by the talking heads. There were plenty of people saying this, including some from WV, but the university never said anything close to possibly firing Holgorsen. I'm also unaware of anyone citing a source from within the university for an article saying he might be fired. Lots of people looking to make news, pointed to his lack of a contract/contract negotiations as a "sign" but it is far more plausible, and was suggested by several people, that each side was merely jockeying for leverage in the negotiations. In the grand scheme of things I don't really care where Holgs' is ranked. It's probably better for us if he ranks poorly as it would make it easier to keep him. I just hate seeing this "rumor" perpetuated.
     
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  17. surly

    surly Well-Known Member

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    https://www.todaysu.com/big-12/west-virginia-mountaineers/how-dana-holgorsen-can-escape-the-hot-seat-in-west-virginia/

    So how warm is the proverbial hot seat? Moderately hot. From what (A.D.) Lyons has said, it’s all a matter of winning. A third 7-6 season in five seasons may not cut it, not when the Big 12 has dominant programs such as Oklahoma and TCU, with Baylor (scandal-plagued though it is) offering the chance that its brilliant frontline talent could win another conference championship.
     
  18. JStanz51

    JStanz51 Administrator
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    Matt Rhule was able to win a conference championship and 10 games in back-to-back seasons at Temple. They haven't had that kind of success since freaking Pop Warner was their coach. That was part of what I wrote down about my point of ranking him higher but I forgot to mention it.
     
  19. MntneerLegion

    MntneerLegion Member

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    #19 MntneerLegion, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017

    If your heart is set on believing he was a bad season away from being fired that's fine, it's just not reality. I read the article you linked and it shows exactly what I'm talking about. Let's take a look at the author's words from the paragraph before his only quote from AD Lyons...

    "There were some extension talks between Holgorsen and West Virginia following the Cactus Bowl win over Arizona State (i.e. after Jan. 2nd 2016), but Holgorsen declined the extension and now the focus remains on winning. That’s the mindset athletic director Shane Lyons is taking."

    So you are telling me Holgorsen was offered an extension by WVU prior to the 2016 season while he was on the hot seat in jeopardy of being fired? - By the way this is not a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear your answer.

    Now let's look at the only actual quote from AD Lyons in that article...

    "“My philosophy and my point of that is I’m not going to discuss coaches’ contracts during the season,” Lyons told West Virginia MetroNews. “Coach Holgorsen and I decided last spring, with his contract, that he is going to focus on winning.

    AD Lyons said he's not going to discuss contracts during the season, almost certainly in response to a contract question, and why would he, he just had his brilliant young coach tell him to take his extension and go pound sand.

    Let's discuss is the comment from the author's paragraph and from AD Lyon's quote about we're going to focus on wins. First it's a non answer, name a team that doesn't focus on wins. That said, you're asserting they are going to focus on wins because he's on the hot seat, which flies in the face of the fact WVU has already made an offer. I'm telling you, as I said in my previous post, it is far more plausible, and was suggested by several people, that they were both jockeying for leverage in the negotiations. Had Holgorsen had another mediocre year he probably would have gotten the extension they offered him. He had a 10-3 year and I'll bet took WVU to the bank. Simply stated, you don't offer a guy an extension if you're thinking of firing him after the year.

    Lastly, let's look at the author's tradecraft...

    The paragraph quote from AD Lyons consists of two separately quoted statements split by the attribution, "Lyons told West Virginia MetroNews." That he didn't use one attribution for both or attribute both of them individually makes me skeptical. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that if you conflate the two statements you are then free to speculate


    "So how warm is the proverbial hot seat? Moderately hot. From what (A.D.) Lyons has said..." If Lyons said it, why didn't he quote him? I'll say again, the university never said anything close to possibly firing Holgorsen. I'm also unaware of anyone citing a source from within the university for an article saying he might be fired.

    Think what you will.
     
  20. The_Gent

    The_Gent Active Member

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    He also had some really good draft picks this year that were guys that were obviously VERY lightly recruited. I think he will be a great coach for Baylor, unfortunately.
     
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