REFUTED: Travis Hines: A look into the ISU BBall program and the Athletic Dept

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BACyclone

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Wow......Why is answered in your first sentence....we know what Jamie and Fred said because we heard it, and we know their names. We have absolutely no clue who were the so-called "sources". Is that really too difficult for you to understand, or are you just being your normal, deliberately obtuse self?

Seriously now. We should believe "nearly ten" unnamed sources about Fred's relationship with Jamie, and not Fred.


:jimlad:
 

2forISU

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Definitely. He's done a lot. Seems like there's a need for fresh ideas. But even if Jamie stays, it's not the worst thing that can happen. There are others above him on the must fire list.
Really? His last idea was the south end zone...

What fresh ideas do you want? Remember when Iowa wanted a fresh new idea and removed Tom Davis, how did that go? Be careful what you ask for.
 

roundball

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why exactly is Jamie or Fred's word worth more than the sources of the story?

Thats not even considering the margin for error due to different interpretations of the same thing.

Because people know NOTHING about anonymous sources...their credibility, their knowledge, their closeness to the situation, etc. are all unknown.

Is it really that difficult to see the difference?
 

BACyclone

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What?

Based on their body of work they do. All have had more NCAA Tournament success than Fred did.

One thing I did agree with Keith Murphy on, that Fred Hoiberg was (maybe still is) Iowa State's biggest asset. I think he was probably worth whatever amount we paid him as our HC.

IOW, I don't think we ever could have paid him what he was worth to Cyclone athletics. He is priceless.

It's just our loss that his dream was to be an NBA coach and not our own version of Coach K.
 

carvers4math

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Because people know NOTHING about anonymous sources...their credibility, their knowledge, their closeness to the situation, etc. are all unknown.

Is it really that difficult to see the difference?

I think their motives are most serious. Most people do not want to burn bridges and JP seems to have a pretty good idea who the sources are, so that ship has probably sailed and they may as well have put their names to it. But then, the exaggerations and untruths would be attributed to them instead of Hines.
 

clone52

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Not many people would say that Rick Barnes, Huggins, Webber and Tubby Smith warrant higher salaries than Fred

Huggins certianly does right now. He has a far better resume than Fred.

Right now, the others don't, but contracts don't get renegotiated yearly. When Barnes and Webber signed their most recent contracts, their resume's were better than Fred's.

What other coach, with 5 years of experience and a single Sweet 16 being their best finish is making over $2 million a year?
 

cycloneworld

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One thing I did agree with Keith Murphy on, that Fred Hoiberg was (maybe still is) Iowa State's biggest asset. I think he was probably worth whatever amount we paid him as our HC.

IOW, I don't think we ever could have paid him what he was worth to Cyclone athletics. He is priceless.

It's just our loss that his dream was to be an NBA coach and not our own version of Coach K.

True. But the second Fred doesn't produce results like at Top 5 paid coach, look over to Iowa City to see what happens.
 

clone52

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Salaries are not based on body of work alone! They're based on the market and likelihood of success. And even if we look at body of work -- guys like Barnes, Huggins, Weber and Tubby have shown they can win. But they've also shown they can't. There's a reason Fred gets the hot job offers, and the others do not.

The market and likelyhood of success were why Rhoads got his long contract. Pollard offered more years in order to keep the salary down. He got burned by it.

The market and likelyhood of success were why Travis Ford got a massive contract from Oklahoma State. How is that working out for them?
 

johnnydugouts

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Because people know NOTHING about anonymous sources...their credibility, their knowledge, their closeness to the situation, etc. are all unknown.

Is it really that difficult to see the difference?

I am not trying to be difficult. but you are taking at face value comments from someone that no longer wanted to be part of this organization, and comments from someone who will be run out of town with pitchforks if he DOESNT refute them because it will be interpreted as his personality once again impacting the retention of quality coaches.

I have already said that I do now know which side is closer to the truth, but to me its crazy to accept JP's interpretation as gospel simply because he was willing to get on the radio.
 

Spam

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The market and likelyhood of success were why Rhoads got his long contract. Pollard offered more years in order to keep the salary down. He got burned by it.

The market and likelyhood of success were why Travis Ford got a massive contract from Oklahoma State. How is that working out for them?

We were discussing what determines salaries. The market and likelihood of success determine salaries. Salaries don't determine success.
 

roundball

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I am not trying to be difficult. but you are taking at face value comments from someone that no longer wanted to be part of this organization, and comments from someone who will be run out of town with pitchforks if he DOESNT refute them because it will be interpreted as his personality once again impacting the retention of quality coaches.

I have already said that I do now know which side is closer to the truth, but to me its crazy to accept JP's interpretation as gospel simply because he was willing to get on the radio.

Nobody is saying that their comments are "the gospel", just that they hold a lot more water since they're actually attributable to a source willing to put their name behind them. If you really think Pollard and Hoiberg's comments are on equal footing with statements from anonymous sources we know nothing about, then you're a clown.
 

laminak

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I am not trying to be difficult. but you are taking at face value comments from someone that no longer wanted to be part of this organization, and comments from someone who will be run out of town with pitchforks if he DOESNT refute them because it will be interpreted as his personality once again impacting the retention of quality coaches.

I have already said that I do now know which side is closer to the truth, but to me its crazy to accept JP's interpretation as gospel simply because he was willing to get on the radio.

Seriously, discrediting Fred's comments, who was there, just because he followed a dream to take a promotion to the NBA is pathetic.

Even since you're purposely keeping your head up your arse, regardless of what Pollard said, it is easily verifiable about the ballroom comment in Hawaii and easily verifiable about the payment of families going to Hawaii or San Antonio. By printing this, Hines and his source lost credibility.

Thus you're placing one's hidden identity with credibility issues on equal footing as Hoiberg, who was actually there and refuted it.

Unbelievable.
 

clone52

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We were discussing what determines salaries. The market and likelihood of success determine salaries. Salaries don't determine success.

What drives the market? What other employers would pay Fred more than he was making at Iowa State? Very few. Fred was worth more to Iowa State than to anyone else, so they definitely should over pay for him, but there is no hard evidence that they could have kept him. Now if donors were willing to shell out $25 million to keep him and Fred would have accepted it, then Pollard made a big mistake, but those are just rumors and there are other rumors that disagree with those rumors.
 

carvers4math

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Nobody is saying that their comments are "the gospel", just that they hold a lot more water since they're actually attributable to a source willing to put their name behind them. If you really think Pollard and Hoiberg's comments are on equal footing with statements from anonymous sources we know nothing about, then you're a clown.

I also think if the topic was the relationship between Pollard and Hoiberg I would give more weight to what they say it is then what unnamed sources say it is.
 

AllN4Cy

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So I'm late to the party. Just read the article. My summary on its content:

The article implies that Fred Hoiberg left Iowa State because
1. Jamie Pollard was cheap
2. Jamie Pollard was jealous of Fred Hoiberg
3. Jamie Pollard blamed rising ticket prices on Fred Hoiberg
4. Jamie Pollard approved paying for athletic department family members to attend a game, and didn't approve paying for some coach's family members to attend.

As a result of all these actions, Fred left Iowa State.

My thoughts:
1. Jamie has to be cheap. The athletic department must pay for itself, and newsflash, Iowa State doesn't have nearly as large of alumni base or gift giving as Iowa or many other power 5 programs. Also, is it cheap to ask the players to check out of their hotel in Hawaii by Noon on their scheduled checkout date to save the school another night of expenses for all the players and coaches? If he did approve another night, but the players only stayed another 3 hours or so until they had to leave for their flight, he'd get hammered for spending excessively. Good grief. Sounds like some overly entitled and spoiled players not living in reality. I'm glad he made them check out.
2. I'm jealous of Fred Hoiberg. Travis - you want to write a story about me? Fred's Mr. All-Everything. The dude hits hole in one's at charitable golf events. Enough said.
3. I do think Jamie calling out the success of the basketball program, and in turn the desire of Cyclone nation to keep Hoiberg (and hence pay him more) as the reason for ticket price increases was unnecessary. The fans/public aren't stupid. Calling it out does seem to me to be a power/negotiating move by Jamie. Pretty ****** move really.
4. This piece of the article is probably what made me disregard it the most. It was a final ditch smear tactic that wasn't necessary. None of us know what went into that decision, so drawing any type of conclusion, or using it to imply it was the reason Fred left, is just bad journalism.

Overall, this felt like an article I might read in the Globe or Enquirer. Gossip, rumors, unnamed anonymous sources, no real facts to speak of. Very disappointing. It seems as though Travis was given some information, spent a ton of time researching and trying to solidify what he was told, never could get anyone to go on record or provide proof, and was pressured to release a story so his time wasn't completely wasted.
 

roundball

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I am not trying to be difficult. but you are taking at face value comments from someone that no longer wanted to be part of this organization, and comments from someone who will be run out of town with pitchforks if he DOESNT refute them because it will be interpreted as his personality once again impacting the retention of quality coaches.

I have already said that I do now know which side is closer to the truth, but to me its crazy to accept JP's interpretation as gospel simply because he was willing to get on the radio.

PS-if you're talking about comments on their "face value", who said them and why should mean nothing. But that's not what you're doing when you make assumptions about Hoiberg's and Pollard's motivations. And that's what you should do, by the way, because who said what and why actually matters...and therein lies the problem with anonymous sources.

Do you get any of this yet, or should I bust out the crayons?
 

BACyclone

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True. But the second Fred doesn't produce results like at Top 5 paid coach, look over to Iowa City to see what happens.

I completely agree with that. Interestingly, Keith Murphy said that exact same thing as well, and it sounded like maybe JP's caution toward Fred after the bigger contract was along those same lines. Just that more money is more scrutiny even in Cyclone land for Fred Hoiberg.
 

Spam

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I also think if the topic was the relationship between Pollard and Hoiberg I would give more weight to what they say it is then what unnamed sources say it is.

Actually that is the ONLY thing I did buy not from JP and Fred's response. They're both professional. I don't think they'd air their dirty laundry in public.