RECRUITING: Reasons to be excited about JUCO commits

ChrisMWilliams

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I'll bet money that one of the starting safeties isn't one of these JUCO guys and I'll bet there isn't a JUCO corner starting next year. Trey Scott said four starters and I bet it's only two. DE and one of the safeties. Tribune will start and Richardson/Lynn will start.

I agree on the corner comment. Not nearly as confident as you seem to be about the S spots though. Sounds to me like Mutcherson has the ability to be out there but his understanding of the game so far is lacking.

Will be interested to see what they do with Rogers.
 

mt85

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To some degree I think the talk about lack of development/recruiting should focus much more on the DBs and LBs and not really on DL. We are always going to have availability for JUCO DL guys due to the nature of recruiting those positions to Ames. We were fortunate in '12 and '13 to get some DL guys in there but hadn't really had much luck prior to that Rhoads' first 3 recruiting cycles. Essentially will be always be open for business for quality, immediate impact DL guys.

I can even accept to some degree the need for a JUCO LB to compete right away with the losses sustained in HS LB recruiting, not that I'm ok with the losses.

I am pretty dissapointed at how much need there is for JUCO DBs. This is a position group that ISU should be able to recruit players to. Of the '10(will be seniors), '11 classes(will be juniors) and '12 classes of recruits, we only have 4 active DBs in Richardson, Lynn, Matt Thomas and TJ Mutcherson. Those 3 classes were very light on DBs and we now are paying for it.

By all accounts our JUCO DB guys are great players and if McDaniel signs up we will be looking good but I am concerned that we are falling into a cyclic pattern of recruitment like McCarney where we are too light on certain positions and then try to back fill 2-3 years later to adjust.

Doesn't bringing in Jucos help fix the issue you're addressing? The way Juco recruiting really hurts a program is when it is done at the expense of class balance. In this case it is needed to restore balance.
 
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Cyclophile1

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Doesn't bring in Jucos help fix the issue you're addressing? The way Juco recruiting really hurts a program is when it is done at the expense of class balance. In this case it is needed to restore balance.

This is what makes me feel a little better about it. Restoring class balance is great. We've got some pretty serious holes to fill in the LBs and secondary. I'll be very interested to see what the plan is for Rogers. I was expecting him to make a mark somewhere in the secondary.
 

RustShack

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I don't see a problem with bringing in experience to a team that was lacking experience last year.
 

Tre4ISU

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I agree on the corner comment. Not nearly as confident as you seem to be about the S spots though. Sounds to me like Mutcherson has the ability to be out there but his understanding of the game so far is lacking.

Will be interested to see what they do with Rogers.

I just think one of those two or Cotton-Moya will find a spot at safety. Now, maybe the two new safeties are NFL guys and I will be wrong and you see Rogers stay at nickel. I doubt that though. You also have Schaeffer and Cotton to contend with too. There's really a lack of age more than bodies back there.
 

AdamJGray

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I just think one of those two or Cotton-Moya will find a spot at safety. Now, maybe the two new safeties are NFL guys and I will be wrong and you see Rogers stay at nickel. I doubt that though. You also have Schaeffer and Cotton to contend with too. There's really a lack of age more than bodies back there.

I would imagine Cotton-Moya will still be a year away from being ready. A torn achilles is tough for a guy to come back from. Unless he's using Deer Antler spray like Terrell Suggs.
 

vortex

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I don't think anybody is arguing that. Obviously this staff has missed on a handful of LB's over the years. Needs across the board on defense. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that we think ​these guys should be able to contribute from day one, unlike some Rhoads JUCO's of the past.
Why do you think they will contribute right away? I see it as a crap shoot, just like all recruiting.
 

RustShack

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Some will play right away and make an impact, some won't make a big impact but will contribute, some will play the following year, and a few might rarely see the field. It's just how it works.
 

Aclone

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I just think one of those two or Cotton-Moya will find a spot at safety. Now, maybe the two new safeties are NFL guys and I will be wrong and you see Rogers stay at nickel. I doubt that though. You also have Schaeffer and Cotton to contend with too. There's really a lack of age more than bodies back there.
It was noted elsewhere that Shaeffer graduated, and won't be back.

The way I'm looking at it, unless Rogers is stuck at nickel, he and Mutcherson will contend at safety with the two JC guys. Cotton-Moya-would probably be in the mix, but for the Achilles injury, which will affect his development. And if an injury-plagued '13 season taught us anything, it should be that having Rogers, Mutcherson, Floyd and Moore all available is better than just having two of the above to fill the void....
 

PabloDiablo

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I'll bet money that one of the starting safeties isn't one of these JUCO guys and I'll bet there isn't a JUCO corner starting next year. Trey Scott said four starters and I bet it's only two. DE and one of the safeties. Tribune will start and Richardson/Lynn will start.

Very true. I was extremely pleased with Tribune as the year went on, no doubt he will be great.

Doesn't bringing in Jucos help fix the issue you're addressing? The way Juco recruiting really hurts a program is when it is done at the expense of class balance. In this case it is needed to restore balance.

True, I guess I was just expressing frustration at the amount of misses and lack of balance at DB in past classes and the need for going Juco at positions where we are capable of getting high school talent.

In the end if it all balances out then it's all good.:smile:
 

CloneIce

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I think the JUCO recruiting says more about the lack of talent and development in CPR's 11' and 12' recruiting classes than it does the talent level of these JUCO kids. You go the JUCO route 1) if there is an amazing prospect that can start for you and really sticks out or 2) you have to recruit JUCO b/c your current crop of kids is not very good. I think the latter is the case.

Iowa State will almost always need to mine the JC ranks for talent. Nothing wrong with that either.
 

BoxsterCy

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Bill Snyder recruits JUCO's?

Bill Snyder actually invented junior colleges back during the Great Depression when he recognized the need for two-year colleges as an alternative to universities. In wasn't till almost 60 years later in the 1990's that he figured they were also good minor leagues for university sports.

:yes:
 

Aclone

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Iowa State will almost always need to mine the JC ranks for talent. Nothing wrong with that either.

Now, why would you want to go and say something reasonable like that, when we can twist things around to denigrate Paul Rhoads, his players and the program instead?
 

Newell

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Bill Snyder has done fairly well over the years with bringing in JUCO kids. Our own Fred Hoiberg is doing this same thing in basketball (I know Basketball isn't the same). I don't have any problem with this approach.

Snyder is a good example of it working. The upside is you fill immediate needs. The downside is high school recruits who have been in the program two or three years working hard to become starters suddenly find themselves bumped down the depth chart and that runs the risk of causing them to lose motivation.
 

iowa_wildcat

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If a high school recruit has been in a program two or three years working hard to become a starter suddenly finds himself bumped down the depth chart by a juco kid, chances are he was not showing the progress necessary to be a starter on the team. Yes, it may also run the risk of causing him to lose motivation. Yes, reality sometimes sucks!
 

Frak

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To some degree I think the talk about lack of development/recruiting should focus much more on the DBs and LBs and not really on DL. We are always going to have availability for JUCO DL guys due to the nature of recruiting those positions to Ames. We were fortunate in '12 and '13 to get some DL guys in there but hadn't really had much luck prior to that Rhoads' first 3 recruiting cycles. Essentially will be always be open for business for quality, immediate impact DL guys.

I can even accept to some degree the need for a JUCO LB to compete right away with the losses sustained in HS LB recruiting, not that I'm ok with the losses.

I am pretty dissapointed at how much need there is for JUCO DBs. This is a position group that ISU should be able to recruit players to. Of the '10(will be seniors), '11 classes(will be juniors) and '12 classes of recruits, we only have 4 active DBs in Richardson, Lynn, Matt Thomas and TJ Mutcherson. Those 3 classes were very light on DBs and we now are paying for it.

By all accounts our JUCO DB guys are great players and if McDaniel signs up we will be looking good but I am concerned that we are falling into a cyclic pattern of recruitment like McCarney where we are too light on certain positions and then try to back fill 2-3 years later to adjust.

I agree to a point. I think that there's always going to be a need for JUCO DL/DE's at ISU. Those kids are tough to get out of HS and the SEC and other major programs flat out stockpile them. Last year, they got Waggoner who no one wanted, Garcia who no one wanted and Trent who no one wanted. Outside of ISU, those three had two BCS offers between them and who knows how solid those offers even were? This year they have all of zero HS DE/DL commits. That's a little scary. Add to that that ISU's biggest problem this year was stopping the run and there are no JUCO NGs being talked about after Clinkscales committed to NU (and rumors of Jensen quitting). And as bad as they were stopping the run, the pass rush from the DEs wasn't much better outside of Morrissey coming on late. I have no problem with them going heavy on JUCO DLs.

LB, I think it is a matter of attrition and youth. They've lost a lot of HS LBs due to defection and transfer. This year after George, they started two converted Safeties. Miller did start playing better late. But guys like Donald Smith, CJ Morgan, Adam Pavlenko, Adrian Bennett would have helped. For next year, you have Brackens and Knott slated to start. Miller could be a backup at WILL or compete at MIKE. Other than that, it's totally untested RS Sophs in Seeley and White or RSFR like Mills, Madison, Webster or Meeks (who I think could move to DE). I really like Jordan Harris. Kid can move and hits like a ton of bricks. At the very least, he will push the guys at MIKE and he could very well start there.

DB is a strange situation. At CB, they return Tribune, Richardson and Lynn. There's a spot for a JUCO there unless they want to play a TRFR. D.A. Williams not making grades really hurt the depth there. But the main issue is where they put Charlie Rogers. I for one thought that he would get one of the Safety spots. He and either Cotton or Cotton-Moya, but maybe Cotton-Moya's injury has put him too far back to expect much next fall. Regardless, they now have two JUCOs to up the competition there and they both look like good players. They've depended on JUCOs a lot at Safety (Sims and Givens) so I'm hoping that they are getting some decent HS players like Cotton-Moya and Kamari Syrie so that they don't have to go JUCO there again in two years.
 

Ficklone02

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I think its a good strategy, but, no mistaking when the games start I won't be watching thinking about a player's path to Iowa State. I'll just be thinking its time to see some results on the field.
 

VeloClone

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Bill Snyder actually invented junior colleges back during the Great Depression when he recognized the need for two-year colleges as an alternative to universities. In wasn't till almost 60 years later in the 1990's that he figured they were also good minor leagues for university sports.

:yes:

Bull****. Snyder does nothing without a plan. He set them up because he knew 50 years down the road he would be able to mine their ranks for his unholy plan of conference domination.
 

St8Fan

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I think the JUCO recruiting says more about the lack of talent and development in CPR's 11' and 12' recruiting classes than it does the talent level of these JUCO kids. You go the JUCO route 1) if there is an amazing prospect that can start for you and really sticks out or 2) you have to recruit JUCO b/c your current crop of kids is not very good. I think the latter is the case.

There are holes in the '11 and '12 classes...that's why you bring in Juco's. The point of the article is that we need really good players to fill those holes and we got some who are in a whole lot more demand than we were able to get in those classes. Additionally, the holes they are filling were those left by the Juco's from the '11 & '12 classes.
 

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