Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

MugNight

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I've always been a big Pitt advocate.

Seems to me the landscape is evolving to prioritizing big time million viewer matchups over quantity of matchups or media market size. Pitt/WV would annually be one of those types of games.

But Pitt would be more than worthwhile on their own institutional merits. Keep in mind, it's ultimately University Presidents that make these decisions. Pitt is a top 100 public University, an AAU institution, and has an endowment more than twice the size of any other new Big 12 program. Having them a part of the club worth raise the Big 12 profile.

They've shown flashes of success in football and basketball, are in a solid media market and recruiting area. Pro towns can be tough, but I think they have all the necessary pieces to be competitive with the right leadership. And if they start rolling, there's enormous potential there.
Pitt has been a better football program than both realignment darlings UVA and arguably UNC this past decade too. They have enough of a decent hoops resume to be worth it IMO.

I’d love the toxicity of Pitt, WVU, Louisville, Cincy all playing basketball against each other in XII play.
 

Big_Sill

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I've always been a big Pitt advocate.

Seems to me the landscape is evolving to prioritizing big time million viewer matchups over quantity of matchups or media market size. Pitt/WV would annually be one of those types of games.

But Pitt would be more than worthwhile on their own institutional merits. Keep in mind, it's ultimately University Presidents that make these decisions. Pitt is a top 100 public University, an AAU institution, and has an endowment more than twice the size of any other new Big 12 program. Having them a part of the club worth raise the Big 12 profile.

They've shown flashes of success in football and basketball, are in a solid media market and recruiting area. Pro towns can be tough, but I think they have all the necessary pieces to be competitive with the right leadership. And if they start rolling, there's enormous potential there.
I have yet to see AAU status, endowment size, university ranking, university presidents matter in any of this.
 

PickSix

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I have yet to see AAU status, endowment size, university ranking, university presidents matter in any of this.
The presidents are literally the ones that vote on expansion.

I guarantee you they value those metrics way more than how many tickets or beer Pitt sells at their stadiums.

It's not the only thing that matters, obviously you need it to make sense with tv partners, but it's for sure a factor. Otherwise Boise State would have been in a power league a long time ago.
 

cykadelic2

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The presidents are literally the ones that vote on expansion.

I guarantee you they value those metrics way more than how many tickets or beer Pitt sells at their stadiums.

It's not the only thing that matters, obviously you need it to make sense with tv partners, but it's for sure a factor. Otherwise Boise State would have been in a power league a long time ago.
Using your criteria, Duke and Stanford would be added from the ACC before Pitt would.
 

HouClone

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Assuming NC, Virginia, FSU, Clemson, and even Miami leave, most ACC leftover fans including Big 12 targets Pitt and Va Tech still want absolutely nothing to do with the Big 12. They believe they will be on par revenue wise or slightly less than the Big 12 by backfilling with UConn, Oregon State, Washington State, USF.
 

PickSix

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Using your criteria, Duke and Stanford would be added from the ACC before Pitt would.
Like I said, there's a myriad of factors that go into these decisions.

But everything I said matters. Why do you think the B1G is so bullish on North Carolina and Virginia? It's not because of football success or stadium sellouts...
 

Cyclonsin

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Like I said, there's a myriad of factors that go into these decisions.

But everything I said matters. Why do you think the B1G is so bullish on North Carolina and Virginia? It's not because of football success or stadium sellouts...
There's only 1 conference that cares even a bit about any of those factors, and that is the B1G. When discussing the SEC or Big XII you can comfortably dismiss all academic factors.

That said, I am a big advocate of bringing Pitt on board purely for the Backyard Brawl. Give me all the rivalry games!
 

ClubCy

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I fully expect to watch BY outmaneuver another commissioner and end another 100 year conference.
Honestly I don’t think he has to outmaneuver them. Sit and wait for it to crumble which sucks that this is so inevitable.
 
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Al_4_State

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Assuming NC, Virginia, FSU, Clemson, and even Miami leave, most ACC leftover fans including Big 12 targets Pitt and Va Tech still want absolutely nothing to do with the Big 12. They believe they will be on par revenue wise or slightly less than the Big 12 by backfilling with UConn, Oregon State, Washington State, USF.
Utah fans wanted nothing to do with the Big 12, yet here we are.

What fans want means ****. When the ACC’s biggest brands leave for the SEC and Big 10, TV will want the remaining fanbases that care about sports with the Big 12. And the schools with tiny fanbases will be in Wazzu/Beavs land.
 

PickSix

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Question for you guys, I know the prevailing wisdom is that Virginia is the second most attractive expansion candidate for the B1G. Are we sure about that?

With how many people are moving from the Midwest to the south, I could easily see the B1G wanting a presence in Florida and snatching up FSU or Miami. Just curious on others thoughts or what y'all have read.
 
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cykadelic2

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I fully expect to watch BY outmaneuver another commissioner and end another 100 year conference.
I like Yormark and what he has done, but this is isn't about the Commissioners, it's about ESPN and Fox manipulation to their financial benefit and the Commissioners are their puppets. The P4 Presidents/AD need to align and put a stop to it before some ACC schools gets crushed like Oregon St and Wazzu already have.

Fox destroyed the PAC and it's appears ESPN will do likewise to the ACC.
 
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CascadeClone

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I have yet to see AAU status, endowment size, university ranking, university presidents matter in any of this.
Here's how I look at it, and why I think Pitt is a good add for Big12.

All the "top brands" (Bama, GA, OSU, Mich, etc) are going to be in the B1G and SEC. So what's left? Lots of formerly P5 universities, many of them large state schools. But also some smaller junky ones.

The Mountain 4 are the best and easiest example of this. All huge state schools, but none are the Top 20 brand types. Pitt is in that realm.

Big12 is building "wide" not "tall".
 

MugNight

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Tell me if this is BS, but I have a theory about XII vs ACC in a post-P2 world. Let’s assume FSU, ND, Clemson, UNC, and UVA are out of the ACC.

To me, the XII schools top to bottom offer a more consistent CFB viewer base demographically than the ACC. I’m talking rabid football fans who would watch a game vs picking another activity on a Saturday. I’m not talking big city carrier fees either… true fans of the game.

From a which set of fan bases would be more lucrative to attract?
A: Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Iowa State, Utah, Texas Tech, BYU, West Virginia
B: Georgia Tech, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, Duke, Cal, Stanford

I think this also plays out for which raft schools like Pitt, NCST, VT, Louisville would choose to stay on or jump to.
 
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Nolaeer

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Pitt has some value bc they're a Notre Dame historic rival. Big 12 would get that game annually. Pitt/PSU is also a thing.

Pitt is decent in football. They did actually win a national championship in my lifetime, and have been in the ACC championship game more than Miami.
 
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Big_Sill

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Here's how I look at it, and why I think Pitt is a good add for Big12.

All the "top brands" (Bama, GA, OSU, Mich, etc) are going to be in the B1G and SEC. So what's left? Lots of formerly P5 universities, many of them large state schools. But also some smaller junky ones.

The Mountain 4 are the best and easiest example of this. All huge state schools, but none are the Top 20 brand types. Pitt is in that realm.

Big12 is building "wide" not "tall".
I have no problem with Pitt joining the big 12 in some future next round of changes, assuming the media partners want it and will pay for it.

My point was that it will have nothing to do with: AAU status, endowment size, university ranking, university presidents... none of this has.
 

simply1

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I think seeing how the lawsuits shake out, you might see schools self relegate. Who knows.
 
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ClubCy

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I don’t see a world where FSU and Clemson would go to the Big 12.
Josh Pate (notable Iowa State Homer) led his most recent podcast touching on the ACC today. Kind of reiterating it’s over and that maybe the B10 and SEC don’t want to give up their slice of the pie and maybe their isn’t much money left for expansion (imo they’ll make it work) but then did a whole piece warning the P2 that Yormark will run circles around them if given a chance to do so and he wasn’t talking about getting Pitt, NCST, and Louisville.

I’m paraphrasing horribly but he said “there is a shark fin offshore circling and if you give Yormark ANY traction he may be able to find the financial backing and you could see Big 12 making moves for FSU and Clemson”
 

isucy86

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I have no problem with Pitt joining the big 12 in some future next round of changes, assuming the media partners want it and will pay for it.

My point was that it will have nothing to do with: AAU status, endowment size, university ranking, university presidents... none of this has.
The Big10 can claim to fall on the academic sword of realignment. But that's more historical than current reality. In 2024 it's all about football/hoops brands and growing territory.

Future Big12 expansion will be about dramatically increasing the Big12's eastern presence and selectively growing west. I fully expect the Big12 to add 6-8 schools, with a focus on schools with solid fan following and populous states. Pitt, Va Tech, NCST and Ga Tech are large state schools in populous states and should be clear targets to compliment current Big12 programs WVU, Cincy and UCF. With Louisville, Duke or/and Syracuse next in line to fill out an 8 team east coast "division".
 

CascadeClone

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Josh Pate (notable Iowa State Homer) led his most recent podcast touching on the ACC today. Kind of reiterating it’s over and that maybe the B10 and SEC don’t want to give up their slice of the pie and maybe their isn’t much money left for expansion (imo they’ll make it work) but then did a whole piece warning the P2 that Yormark will run circles around them if given a chance to do so and he wasn’t talking about getting Pitt, NCST, and Louisville.

I’m paraphrasing horribly but he said “there is a shark fin offshore circling and if you give Yormark ANY traction he may be able to find the financial backing and you could see Big 12 making moves for FSU and Clemson”
That's nice to say, but I think it is more cover for the B1G and SEC to make a move. Ultimately the TV money is pulling these strings, and they want to consolidate the big brands in the B1G and SEC, full stop.

And FSU/Clemson will see the Big12 as just ACC but further west, totally lateral move. What's their motivation?
 
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