What makes the treadmill move backwards at 50mph when there is no force on the wheels of the plane?
Plane on a Treadmill
- Thread starter Warder60
- Start date
- Status
What makes the treadmill move backwards at 50mph when there is no force on the wheels of the plane?
Tell me something - if you're so concerned about there needing to be wind speed for a plane to take off, how does a plane take off on a windless day?
The fact that the plane is moving 50 mph puts whatever the equivalent of 50 mph worth of air pressure equals out to be on the wings, exactly the same way that a plane moving 50 mph puts whatever the equivalent of 50 mph worth of air pressure on a windless day and not on a treadmill.
There is force on the wheels of the plane - the weight of the plane (and the weight of the wheel itself).
htown... when MythBusters prove that it works as described will you agree?
Thank god that show is on tomorrow... This thread is making my productivity drop to 0.
Thank god that show is on tomorrow... This thread is making my productivity drop to 0.
It is the wing generated from the speed of the plane. Not how windy it is outside.. The argument we are making is that the plane will be able to move forward...unless you want to argue about why planes are able to fly :wink:
That makes no sense.
If i stood on a treadmill and had jet propulision, the friction from my feet would make the treadmill move forward not backward.
If you had jet propulsion and free spinning wheels on your feet you wouldn't be pushing the treadmill much if at all.
Misunderstood what you were saying there - I see your point on that.
It would work that way if the speed of the treadmill weren't able to overcome the friction caused by the momentum principle of Newton's Law (objects in motion tend to stay in motion and objects at rest such as my self tend to keep their lazy *** seated on the couch :wink
. However, if it can overcome that force of friction, it won't move forward.
I think the myth assumes that there's something driving the treadmill to move at the speed (such as the kind of motor that would move a typical treadmill), not that the wheels of the plane or the rollerblades or ________ are what's moving the treadmill.
Help me out here. A plane can not move without thrust. Without thrust, it would sit there motionless, the wheels do not move the plane forward. The treadmill would not be moving until thrust is added, and as long as the treadmill matches the speed created by the thrust, the plane would remain stationary.
Again, I am thinking of the effect that gravity has on the plane. The gravity acting on the plane causes friction with the surface that the plane is sitting on. The purpose of the wheels is to conteract the friction. Imagine trying to go down a runway without wheels, the amount of thrust that you would need would be incredible. Now imagine that the ground (treadmill) moves at a rate equal to what is being generated by the thrust of the engines. Without forward movement, gravity and friction keep the plane on the ground.
Is your argument that there is no way for the treadmill to keep up witht the force of thrust? Is your argument that the thrust of the engines would give the plane lift and therefore overcome gravity and friction? Or is there something else that I don't understand?
My argument is that it does not matter how much thrust there is, without airflow over the wings, the plane will not lift off. As long as the ground beneath the plan is matching the speed that the plane is able to make the wheels move at, there would be no airflow over the wings.
I really don't know how you could be any more wrong. You clearly have no idea what makes a plane move and how the wheels free-wheel as a plane goes down the runway. I am just stunned.
I do understand 100%, what I am saying is that the Myth we all are debating about says the treadmill will ALWAYS move as fast as the plane, the plane therefore cannot move forward enough to get the air pressure and lift necessary for flight.
What are you using as the definition of plane? The body of the plane is moving or the wheels are moving?
This definition answers the question.
The speed the treadmill is matching is the airspeed of the plane, not the ground speed (wheel speed).
On a stationary runway airspeed and ground speed are exactly the same on a windless day.
One a treadmill the ground speed is going to be approximately double the airspeed.
Well the myth that is stated is that the plane(meaning the body of the plane) is always moving at the same speed as the treadmill(belt). NOT the wheels.
- Status
