Our record does not matter this year
- Thread starter demoncore1031
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If close losses don't become close wins by the end of the year, I'm going to question this coaching staff big time in terms of winning mindset and ability to close out games. I defended Greg McDermott for way too long with "We are Iowa State" and "he's turning it around" excuses. Close losses last year were the difference between 6-6 and 8-4/9-3. That would have been a monumental step for this program coming off of the biggest win in school history vs Oklahoma State. Now, close losses this year are the difference between 3-2/4-1 and 1-4. These are devastating for a team that is trying to be "on the rise."
I think people should look back at 2003. That team took it's lumps with some young players and came back strong in 04-05. In fact, that team was almost never competitive and got absolutely destroyed. This team is getting some great experience for talented but raw young guys, yet is still going to win some more games.
After last week's loss against Texas, the goal of getting to a bowl game was over IMO. At that point, wins and losses don't really matter anymore, as a fan, UNLESS it gets to the point where we lose recruits over it.
Does that mean I'm not going to continue to support the team and hope they win as many games as they can, of course not. But I'm looking at a lot more things than just the scoreboard. I'm intrigued at what could be in store for this program in the next few years ahead.
I look at this OL, and it's almost entirely youngsters. They are getting some awesome experience right now against some really good football teams and it's only going to help them. Same goes for the WR's too. So those are the positives. We are VERY, VERY young, but we're getting great experience right now. And we're getting better.
I do agree with those that say the coaching needs to improve as well though. I still see a lot of things that bother me. We can't afford to play 10-15 yds off of WRs. If our DB's are that bad that we have to give that kind of cushion, we're doomed. The tackling has resorted back to where it was during the UNI game. There is absolutely no excuse for poor tackling at this point, none.
And our DB's ball skills are non existent. If we had good ball skills yesterday, we get 2-3 more INT's, and possibly one of those could have been a pick 6. Our guys have to turn around and see the ball at some point. All good DB's do. You cannot make any INT's if you just stare into the WR's chest the entire play.
And I'm not sold on Mess still either. I thought he was improving since the Iowa game, but then yesterday didn't look so good once again. Our first 3 series must have been 3 and outs yesterday, it sure seemed like it. The defense was already gassed late in the 1st quarter. How Mess can not have some plays designed to beat aggressive defensive teams that blitz a lot is still beyond me. The next time I see us beat a blitz by hitting a quick slant over the middle to the TE will be the first time I've seen us do it. It should be an automatic hot read. If the LBs blitz, the TE should just slant right into the area vacated by the LBs and bingo, you got an easy 10-15 yds.
Does that mean I'm not going to continue to support the team and hope they win as many games as they can, of course not. But I'm looking at a lot more things than just the scoreboard. I'm intrigued at what could be in store for this program in the next few years ahead.
I look at this OL, and it's almost entirely youngsters. They are getting some awesome experience right now against some really good football teams and it's only going to help them. Same goes for the WR's too. So those are the positives. We are VERY, VERY young, but we're getting great experience right now. And we're getting better.
I do agree with those that say the coaching needs to improve as well though. I still see a lot of things that bother me. We can't afford to play 10-15 yds off of WRs. If our DB's are that bad that we have to give that kind of cushion, we're doomed. The tackling has resorted back to where it was during the UNI game. There is absolutely no excuse for poor tackling at this point, none.
And our DB's ball skills are non existent. If we had good ball skills yesterday, we get 2-3 more INT's, and possibly one of those could have been a pick 6. Our guys have to turn around and see the ball at some point. All good DB's do. You cannot make any INT's if you just stare into the WR's chest the entire play.
And I'm not sold on Mess still either. I thought he was improving since the Iowa game, but then yesterday didn't look so good once again. Our first 3 series must have been 3 and outs yesterday, it sure seemed like it. The defense was already gassed late in the 1st quarter. How Mess can not have some plays designed to beat aggressive defensive teams that blitz a lot is still beyond me. The next time I see us beat a blitz by hitting a quick slant over the middle to the TE will be the first time I've seen us do it. It should be an automatic hot read. If the LBs blitz, the TE should just slant right into the area vacated by the LBs and bingo, you got an easy 10-15 yds.
We've been to a bowl games 3 out of 4 years under Rhoads, correct? So who is always saying "next year"? I think most fans are pretty satisfied when we make a bowl. I know I don't ever expect us to win 9+ games a year. That's somewhat unrealistic IMO.
Getting a quarterback not named Austin Flynn was what really helped us improve between 2003 and 2004, not getting blown out in 10 games.
I think the key is th fans and top recruits see the overall potential. Close losses to average teams are better than blow outs but if this team is truly talented but just young, then we should see some close victories as the season goes along. My concern is line play, tech destroyed us up front. Sure there are injuries but at some point line play has to become a positive if Iowa State will truly move to the next level.
Agree. We'll get better and if we are to win big games, we have to be smarter on the blitz. Sam looked lost out there yesterday.
You know what tires me out more than morale victories? Every single time anyone tries to point out any kind of positive in a crap situation they are accused of settling for morale victories.
Let me be clear - I completely disagree with the thread title. Record does matter. Of all the statistics that you could track, it's the only stat that matters 10 years from now - or even at the end of the season. Nobody will care that we lost by 7 points when we were out gained by 400 yards on offense - all that will be seen is the L.
That being said, why the hell can we not talk about the few positives that may exist in the crap situation? If you think there cannot possibly be any positives that come from a loss and that our season is completely lost, then feel free not to participate, or at the very least start your very own antisocial ******** thread because, quite honestly, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the conversation besides the ******* and moaning, and as if that rhetoric hasn't gotten old over the last decade plus.
Let me be clear - I completely disagree with the thread title. Record does matter. Of all the statistics that you could track, it's the only stat that matters 10 years from now - or even at the end of the season. Nobody will care that we lost by 7 points when we were out gained by 400 yards on offense - all that will be seen is the L.
That being said, why the hell can we not talk about the few positives that may exist in the crap situation? If you think there cannot possibly be any positives that come from a loss and that our season is completely lost, then feel free not to participate, or at the very least start your very own antisocial ******** thread because, quite honestly, you have absolutely nothing to contribute to the conversation besides the ******* and moaning, and as if that rhetoric hasn't gotten old over the last decade plus.
We may not "lose" any signed or committed recruits, but big wins improve our chances with recruits that are not yet signed or committed (and some that may not even be on our radar yet). You have to think that wins against Texas and Texas Tech would help with recruiting in Texas. It certainly wouldn't hurt.
Having said that, I would expect coaches to approach guys with the line "you may be the missing piece . . . you can see we are so close . . . don't you want to be on the field when we beat ____________."
Having said that, I would expect coaches to approach guys with the line "you may be the missing piece . . . you can see we are so close . . . don't you want to be on the field when we beat ____________."
We'll have more talent next year and I do think we could be better. It all depends on how the offense is run. We'll see how Mess does the rest of the year. If there's no improvement and we still look clueless to how to run the scheme we are trying and he doesn't get fired, then that will be a big blow to my confidence for 2014
More favorable schedule next year? We get NDSU instead of UNI and have to go to Kinnick. Also, I highly doubt the Big 12 will have two down years in a row, the conference will be better in 2014.
If we win the bowl game then yes. But we didn't, so I'd say probably not. But it was better than what this season is going to likely be.
Going to a crappy or mid level type bowl game is probably the ceiling for a program like Iowa State. It just is. If you're waiting for us to win the Big 12 and go to a BCS bowl game, then you might be a disappointed fan for a very long time.
Logically, there should not have been much expectation for this team this year. We just lost WAY too much from a year ago, especially on defense. Everyone should have seen that this was going to be kind of a rebuilding year for next year and the year after that.
Anyone that said "wait until next year" after last year was fooling themselves. We lost 5 out of our starting front 7 on defense, and two of them were possibly the best two LBs ever at ISU.
Someone said we started one senior on offense yesterday, and two seniors on defense. If that's true, that is remarkable. And the only senior on offense was Justin Coleman. Nothing against him, but he was still a walk on going into this season, so it's not like we're losing Seneca Wallace here or anything either.
We are extremely young, but getting better.
This is what has bugged me the most about our offense at ISU over the years. Our offensive coaches either have been too stupid to scheme in hot reads or they don't think our personnel has been smart enough to identify blitzes when they come and where they come from. Pro teams and many college teams have these quick slant hot reads set up to burn blitzing defenses, and they work....that's why you don't see a whole lot of blitzing in the NFL.
In the meantime, we're getting blitzed nearly every freaking down because opposing defensive coaches know we won't counter it. This is what makes our OL look bad most of the time. They can usually handle a 4 man rush reasonably well, but it's tough to block 6 defenders with 5 guys.
I think the best hot read route is to just have a slot receiver slant into the vacated middle of the field and chuck the ball at him. The TE would work as well, but we need to have the TE in there to help hold off the blitz for another split second. But it doesn't matter anyway, our coaches refuse to plan for the blitzes anyway.
By the way, another thing I noticed yesterday in terms of offensive scheme. The Tech QB seemed to take a nice deep drop back for many pass plays. This held off our rush (what little there is) much longer and gave his receivers time to get loose. Our QB never drops back as deep as Webb was yesterday. Maybe it would help, maybe not. Maybe we just don't have receivers that can get separation anyway (most likely).
This. Compare our OL in terms of size and run blocking dominance to everyone else in the league and therein lies your answer. There is where we need our biggest upgrade IMO. Outside of Farniok, I'm not sure anyone else would start for another Big 12 team right now, however, I do like Burton. He is just playing a year or two sooner than expected which will pay off. Same for Lalk, although he hasn't been able to play a lot and is hard to evaluate. We need to recruit more of the Kalechi Osemele body types at Tackle with that nasty attitude. Right now we don't have any. Not a fan of the lean, tall, athletic types at T. Give me a KO anyday and road graters at G.
Messingham needs to be demoted, not fired. We need an OC with the experience of Wally or young and proven OC for at least 3-4 years! We should be able to recruit a very good OC at a Big 12 school who can also recruit offensive talent! He will call one game very well (like Texas last week although not putting Woody in the end of the game near the goal line cost us that game too, IMO) and lay an egg the next. Very inconsistent playcalling. Lots of head scratching plays and and doesn't seem to lock into the flow of the game and recognize what works and and stick with it, and goes back to things that don't previously work. Hate all the small window, throws to Bundrage on the sideline...those are very low completion percentages. Send him on more post and corner routes where he can get separation, but I guess we don't have enough time to throw them?..See OL above.
DL will come along, although a JC guy or two next year would be nice. We also need major upgrades at LB, IMO. Forced to move a talented, young Luke Knott from S (where I think he would be best suited based on his size) and same for Brackins (who moved to LB out of necessity). With that said, Luke is playing well, but I think he'd be better at SS. Janson Watson not playing much this year hurts us a LOT as he is really good. We are average at DE, undersized there too, but those kids play hard and I think are playing to their potential, but are they Big 12 talent? We are really small on defense. I thought that might help make us faster but we were beaten all over the field yesterday speed wise.
We do play with heart, which was absent under Chizik. But I agree we have talent gaps at key position groups.
