*** Official #23 BYU vs #10 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[MartyFine]

I'm sorry but this is an absolutely horrific excuse. We allowed ourselves to get down 24 points in the second half. We were content to chuck threes for 2/3rds of the game. We got outrebounded by 28 rebounds. Heise took a relaxing stroll to the rim and got swatted in OT. We had two different end-of-game scenarios with a chance to win were we couldn't even get a shot off. That one play wasn't the "difference in the game". And hell, who knows what he said. We have no idea if it was even unjustified and slapping the floor will typically get you a "T".

 

[fsanford]

The KSU and OSU and maybe the WVU losses are the outliers and where I think a lot of fans are most frustrated and for good reason. Stinkers all around. Our other five losses are to NET ranked teams of #1, #3, #10, #21 and #24. Losing twice in Hilton + jeckyl and hyde play have a lot of fans miffed. I get it.

KSU was considered the 2nd best team in the country based on offensive and defensive efficiency ratings, when they played. Should not got whipped like that but KSU was red hot and stayed that way until Hawkins got hurt. Its why I say when you play a team has a huge impact. My kingdom to play BYU in Jan before they found themselves.

Still gonna see how this all shakes out, before the final autopsy.

Critical comments of the team after last night have been fair and reasonable. Nobody going hyperbolic.

 

[not-the-manager]

All I can say to the various adherents to Chicken Little-ism is I look forward to admiring your 98% brackets. And your gambling records! Ah, that simple, simple hobby that everyone profits from. You've certainly got ISU pegged—no P4 athletes or lifelong coaches working 80+ hours per week could change facts on the ground. No, this team is a middle-of-the-pack disappointment that will be an early tournament exit, according to such sages. I suppose I'll take up woodworking or gardening to pass the time the rest of this month

 

[fsanford]

Is it me or are there a lot more late whistles to see if he makes the shot calls this year? In otherwords, shot goes in no foul.

I watch a number of different games and it seems to be more of a trend.

 

[Clonefan32]

I thought you were talking about Keshons technical? In any event the clip doesn’t have the angle to show anything. The excuse making is ridiculous. We played very poorly for the majority of the game, got murdered on the boards and failed to execute late. We were in the bonus at the 9 minute mark. Refs weren’t the issue.

Also we benefited from some pretty soft fouls late as well…

 

[dahliaclone]

KSU was considered the 2nd best team in the country based on offensive and defensive efficiency ratings, when they played. Should not got whipped like that but KSU was red hot and stayed that way until Hawkins got hurt. Its why I say when you play a team has a huge impact. My kingdom to play BYU in Jan before they found themselves.

Still gonna see how this all shakes out, before the final autopsy.

Critical comments of the team after last night have been fair and reasonable. Nobody going hyperbolic.

pretty sure I heard BYU was playing as the #3 team in the country on their winning streak even before coming to Ames.

 

[NENick]

I don’t think many would disagree with what you’re saying. I’m just not sure what you’re suggesting. Am I interpreting this as - you think you’re seeing - on message boards - Iowa State fans that are NOT going enjoy the tournaments? That Iowa State fans are NOT grateful for the program and what it’s doing right now? Is there anything a fan can share that borders on “frustration” or “criticism” that is OK or valid in your mind?

Sincerely apologize if I am missing something here, because my gut reaction is you are trying to lecture Iowa State fans on their ungrateful attitudes after a tough home loss, after they’ve seen a season of expectations spiral a bit in the last 6+ weeks. I struggle with why fans would feel the need to scold or lecture other fans or tell them how to root for their favorite team/school. Including how and what they post after tough losses and bad games. Whether the team is 22-8 and in a MUCH better place as a Team and Program (vs. like Minnesota or whoever), IMHO, is irrelevant.

I tend to stay away from the game threads after tip-off, but I'll check in occasionally and did last night as the BYU lead grew. There were absolutely posts stating the team has no heart, that specific players are a waste of time and resources, that the coaching staff is horrible and some coaches (at least one) should be fired. I understand that people post regrettable things in the heat of the moment, but some of it does carry over, especially after a loss. There can certainly be criticism and frustration expressed. Some is just over the top, imo.

 

[FinalFourCy]

If that team had more talent, why weren’t they preseason top 5? Barely even top 20.

Because they didn’t play defense

 

[MeowingCows]

Is it me or are there a lot more late whistles to see if he makes the shot calls this year? In otherwords, shot goes in no foul.

I watch a number of different games and it seems to be more of a trend.

I've had the same thought, and it was quite bad in the game last night (for both teams).

 

[NENick]

I've had the same thought, and it was quite bad in the game last night (for both teams).

NBA officials have done this for years. I'm actually OK with it, to a certain extent. If it's a brush foul that didn't affect the shot, which goes in, play on. If the shot doesn't go in, blow the whistle.

 

[fsanford]

NBA officials have done this for years. I'm actually OK with it, to a certain extent. If it's a brush foul that didn't affect the shot, which goes in, play on. If the shot doesn't go in, blow the whistle.

I guess so, I don't watch much if any NBA, so I guess I will need to get used to it.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Lastly didn't that 2014-2015 team have 5 guys that ended up on NBA rosters at some point? ISU this year, maybe 1 or 2?

I do think a Jameel McKay on this team would be a huge.

Morris, BDJ, Thomas, Niang, Nader, and even Naz

Plus, even though Hogue, McKay, and NWB didn’t make NBA rosters, they were very good college players and athletic

2018-19 with Halliburton, THT, Shayok, Wigginton, NWB, Lard, Jacobson, Young, and Conditt had everything needed to be elite on both ends

 

[CYEATHAWK]

And 22-8 isn’t bad. People have to chill with this rollercoaster of emotions. It will end up effecting our ability to keep TJ and the ability to retain parts of this roster. If we finish with 26 wins it would the 4th highest win total in Iowa State history. Let’s get a win on Saturday, get a couple in KC and just see what happens in March.

TJ isnt going anywhere. I believe him when he said this is his dream job. Plus, the seeds for him being coach at ISU were sown before Fred became coach. So he is going nowhere.

Now for the 22-8 record......it isnt bad and will always be good for the standards at ISU.

However, what do you think their record would be had Milan been shut down at the start of conference play for the rest of the season? Because I have seen many say that is when things changed.

Now I think Naz Long was a better overall player than Milan and as good of shooter. Back in 2015/16 in Steve Prohm's first year he was saddled with insane expectations. Then Naz had to shut things down after December due to hip surgery. The team went on to win 23 games and make the sweet 16.

What was response on CF.........complete outrage!!! I don't remember Prohm being given quarter or anyone having to "chill with this rollercoaster of emotions". That season 23 wins and a sweet 16 in spite of missing a huge piece of the puzzle was written off as completely underachieving.

So after starting 17-2 and in the top 5 in TJ's 4th year even with the loss of Milan for a handful of games I think this post......

Is 22-8 underperforming after starting 17-2 and being ranked in the Top 5 with all the metrics pointing to the team proving to be a Top 5 team? Yeah, I think so. I think it’s “OK” for fans to think this and be frustrated.

.....is spot on and should be understood.

 

[StLouisClone]

TJ's obsession with the 8-man lineup needs to end. BYU played 10 guys. That allows their top guys to have fresher legs at the end of the halves and potentially avoid picking up 5 personal fouls. ISU plays really effective trapping/pressure defense in spurts... usually for no more than 5-7 minutes each half. They play straight up man to man for the remaining 13-15 minutes each half. Adding Watson to the lineup would allow more time for our pressure defense. It seems like a no-brainer. I don't get it. Watson makes us a better rebounding team as well. He's averaging 0.27 rebounds/minute aa a 4 versus Jackson's 0.26 rebounds/minute as a 5.

I think the 8-man lineup helps ISU win games in the first half of the season as our guys gel quicker than other teams, but it absolutely hurts the team in the 2nd half of the season as injuries and fatigue take a toll.

 

[INTENSE_CY]

ONLY 171 days until football!

 

[FinalFourCy]

TJ's obsession with the 8-man lineup needs to end. BYU played 10 guys. That allows their top guys to have fresher legs at the end of the halves and potentially avoid picking up 5 personal fouls. ISU plays really effective trapping/pressure defense in spurts... usually for no more than 5-7 minutes each half. They play straight up man to man for the remaining 13-15 minutes each half. Adding Watson to the lineup would allow more time for our pressure defense. It seems like a no-brainer. I don't get it. Watson makes us a better rebounding team as well. He's averaging 0.27 rebounds/minute aa a 4 versus Jackson's 0.26 rebounds/minute as a 5.

I think the 8-man lineup helps ISU win games in the first half of the season as our guys gel quicker than other teams, but it absolutely hurts the team in the 2nd half of the season as injuries and fatigue take a toll.

Probably too late for load management and developing the bench for later

 

[Klubber]

From the couch, leadership/communication imo will be what does this team in.

The turnovers seem to stem from the lack of or bad communication in crucial moments.

Only 11 last night total but at least three came at the worst time.

Agree. Total turnovers with 2 OT's is not bad at 11, but man some of those came at critical, win or lose the game type moments.

We can't seem to fire on all cylinders right now. Guys miss games with injury/sickness and other guys step up big time (Houston). Guys come back from injury/sickness and start playing well again, but then we get zero production from our bigs forcing TJ to play Jefferson extended minutes at the 5 (last night). We're struggling somewhat. Still a couple of weeks before the NCAA. We have time to get it going again.

 

[awd4cy]

Because they didn’t play defense

Amazing that team had a better record in the Big 12 playing no defense.

 

[fsanford]

TJ's obsession with the 8-man lineup needs to end. BYU played 10 guys. That allows their top guys to have fresher legs at the end of the halves and potentially avoid picking up 5 personal fouls. ISU plays really effective trapping/pressure defense in spurts... usually for no more than 5-7 minutes each half. They play straight up man to man for the remaining 13-15 minutes each half. Adding Watson to the lineup would allow more time for our pressure defense. It seems like a no-brainer. I don't get it. Watson makes us a better rebounding team as well. He's averaging 0.27 rebounds/minute aa a 4 versus Jackson's 0.26 rebounds/minute as a 5.

I think the 8-man lineup helps ISU win games in the first half of the season as our guys gel quicker than other teams, but it absolutely hurts the team in the 2nd half of the season as injuries and fatigue take a toll.

This is a good point, Watson has shown he can contribute..



I look back at LE's 2 tourney teams, by year 2 the guys who had been in the program a couple of years, started to wear down at the end.

 

[Bo Darville]

Agree. Total turnovers with 2 OT's is not bad at 11, but man some of those came at critical, win or lose the game type moments.

We can't seem to fire on all cylinders right now. Guys miss games with injury/sickness and other guys step up big time (Houston). Guys come back from injury/sickness and start playing well again, but then we get zero production from our bigs forcing TJ to play Jefferson extended minutes at the 5 (last night). We're struggling somewhat. Still a couple of weeks before the NCAA. We have time to get it going again.

I think that if we've only fired on all cylinders for a couple of games, maybe those were the flukes. Team is who it is.

Put differently, are we a V8 that's got a couple fouled plugs? Or are we really just a V6?