MLB: ***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Season Thread***

Kaner04

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Well we’re about 40 games in. So far it’s similar to last year. Around a 10 game over .500 ball club in a weak division. Shaky relief pitching except for 3 guys and 2 reliable starters. Inconsistent on offense. Gonna be hard to picture playoffs because there isn’t gonna be a 17 game win streak this year.
 

TomTreebow

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Liberatore and Gorman coming up so finally some exciting moves to follow this year. Still think they punted the offseason when SPs were readily available from Oakland and they went with Dickerson/Pujols at DH instead of finding a true solution. Time to find out if the young guns can right those wrongs. Jordan Walker behind them is going to be their best prospect in a long time as well. Just a shame that the FO is gun shy to go all in when we've got a 34 yo Goldy and 31 yo Arenado, not to mention last hurrah for Waino and Yadi.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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Same old song and dance, "we like our young players, we think this guy is ready for a breakout year, or we are counting on a pitcher to round back into form."

To get above average pitching you have to overpay either on the FA market or in a trade, our entire outfield is GOOD, but no GREAT. Cards need to stop relying on getting a player in a trade, and hope that they fall in love with St. Louis and sign a contract extension, and start paying outfielder that can rake.

No Ace on the mound, again, lots of Good, but no one that is your Ace, that is going to stop a losing streak, how much longer can we get throwing Waino out there and figure we can get by?
 

swiacy

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Same old song and dance, "we like our young players, we think this guy is ready for a breakout year, or we are counting on a pitcher to round back into form."

To get above average pitching you have to overpay either on the FA market or in a trade, our entire outfield is GOOD, but no GREAT. Cards need to stop relying on getting a player in a trade, and hope that they fall in love with St. Louis and sign a contract extension, and start paying outfielder that can rake.

No Ace on the mound, again, lots of Good, but no one that is your Ace, that is going to stop a losing streak, how much longer can we get throwing Waino out there and figure we can get by?
Our 2 Aces that were developed in house are both elite fast ball pitchers who can’t stay active. Both were being counted on to anchor the rotation and it looks like both will not hold up.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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Our 2 Aces that were developed in house are both elite fast ball pitchers who can’t stay active. Both were being counted on to anchor the rotation and it looks like both will not hold up.
They have protentional, neither one has lived up to what the Cards or the fanbase hope they will become. Right now, both in the same situation as Rick Ankel, and many others. Great stuff, it just never happens for one reason or another.
 

Aclone

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Some of you guys seem to think that the Cardinals have the same type of budget as the Yankees or Dodgers do. That’s not really the case. Especially after two years with cash flow from attendance seriously affected by COVID.

I’ll tell you what the best move for this season might well have been. Trading Nolan Gorman for a shortstop, either as part of a package deal for a solid starter or straight up for a hot prospect. Essentially keeping things within the current budget.

But they couldn’t do that, because of a potential domino effect.

Now, I haven’t checked on this for a while, but I’ve been aware of it since Arenado signed.

A. Those aforementioned Dodgers have an option on 3B Justin Turner for ‘23 after this season. He’ll be 38 next season. If they choose not to exercise it:

B. Nolan Arenado can opt out of his St. Louis contract and go home. Many people scoff at the idea of him opting out of such a huge contract, but the Dodgers are one team with pockets deep enough to match it. And LA is home.

And this off-season will be his last chance to do so.

if this happens, then:

C. Nolan Gorman is our starting 3B in ‘23. Because Jordan Walker likely won’t be quite ready at age 20—especially on defense.

So yeah, they’ve been keeping things close to the vest in case the worst happens.

Oh…and after a quick glance, I see that Turner is hitting .215 for the Dodgers right now. With a paltry four homers.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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Some of you guys seem to think that the Cardinals have the same type of budget as the Yankees or Dodgers do. That’s not really the case. Especially after two years with cash flow from attendance seriously affected by COVID.

I’ll tell you what the best move for this season might well have been. Trading Nolan Gorman for a shortstop, either as part of a package deal for a solid starter or straight up for a hot prospect. Essentially keeping things within the current budget.

But they couldn’t do that, because of a potential domino effect.

Now, I haven’t checked on this for a while, but I’ve been aware of it since Arenado signed.

A. Those aforementioned Dodgers have an option on 3B Justin Turner for ‘23 after this season. He’ll be 38 next season. If they choose not to exercise it:

B. Nolan Arenado can opt out of his St. Louis contract and go home. Many people scoff at the idea of him opting out of such a huge contract, but the Dodgers are one team with pockets deep enough to match it. And LA is home.

And this off-season will be his last chance to do so.

if this happens, then:

C. Nolan Gorman is our starting 3B in ‘23. Because Jordan Walker likely won’t be quite ready at age 20—especially on defense.

So yeah, they’ve been keeping things close to the vest in case the worst happens.

Oh…and after a quick glance, I see that Turner is hitting .215 for the Dodgers right now. With a paltry four homers.
No the Cards do not have as much money to throw around as the Dodgers or Yankees, but we also should not be $90 to $100 million behind them in payroll, when you are in the top 3 attendance wise for the past 20 years or so.

Cards are 12th in the league in salary, the White Sox are paying more out than we are, so are the Braves and Astros.
Arenado has repeated stated he is going nowhere, and is not going to opt out of his contract, you have take him at his word, on the matter. until he says otherwise.

We can play gloom and doom all we want, but with the resources and fan base of Cardinal Nation, 12th in salary should never happen.


 
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Aclone

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Yes, in the top in attendance the last twenty years. That’s where the revenue that separates them from the other small market teams (like Pittsburgh) has come from.

And that spigot has been shut off for the last two years.

I’m not going to guess how still paying even slightly reduced salaries affected the team finances, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t good. And will take a couple of years to recover from.

Of course, some veteran salaries are going to come off the books after this season, one way or another.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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Yes, in the top in attendance the last twenty years. That’s where the revenue that separates them from the other small market teams (like Pittsburgh) has come from.

And that spigot has been shut off for the last two years.

I’m not going to guess how still paying even slightly reduced salaries affected the team finances, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t good. And will take a couple of years to recover from.

Of course, some veteran salaries are going to come off the books after this season, one way or another.
You are forgetting about Ball Park Village, which they own, and they are printing money over there. Plus they just completed the 2nd phase of the operation. How much longer should Cardinal fans pay to enrich Dewitt and the ownership group?

Look, I am not saying we should be in the top three in salary, but we should always be higher than 12th. It speaks of nothing but greed by the ownership group. Cardinal tickets are some of the highest in the league and yet we act like we are the Reds or Pirates, scraping to meet payroll. What happened to the promised bump in salaries once the new TV contract was signed? You know like 4 years ago.
 

Aclone

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Just an update from the minor leagues..

Jordan Walker isn’t the only standout from the 2020 Draft class. Shortstop Masyn Winn turned it up a couple of notches at Peoria, hitting .349 with seven triples and eleven doubles (one HR) in only 129 AB. Toss in 15 stolen bases, great range and a 96 mph arm from the shortstop hole, and he looks like a building block of the future.

‘21 fifth rounder Gordon Graceffo has continued boosting his velocity since his junior year at Villinove. He hit 100 mph in the Spring, and has worked at 96-98 at Peoria. He has a .99 ERA there in eight starts, with 56 K’s and only 4 BB’s (a .68 WHIP) in 45 2/3 IP.

Matter of fact, he’s been even better than ‘21 first rounder Michael McGreevy, who has the control—but not that velocity. In 45 1/3 IP at Peoria, he also has only allowed 4 BB’s, but “only” has 41 K’s (.99 WHIP).

Winn, Graceffo and McGreevy have just been promoted to AA Springfield, where Winn will rejoin his big buddy Walker.

I’m cautiously optimistic that if Winn and Walker—both just turned 20—can continue to rake, they’ll both make the majors sometime later next year.

I don’t think I have to be quite that optimistic for Graceffo and McGreevy.
 
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Aclone

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What happened to the promised bump in salaries once the new TV contract was signed? You know like 4 years ago.
COVID.

You know, like two years ago.

The simple fact is, they traded for Arenado, positioning themselves to do more, once his impact was assimilated…and then that hit. Literally, like a month or so after the trade.

As far as Ballpark Village, I didn’t forget anything. I simply don’t know details. As far as that “printing money”, there’s more that I don’t know. Is Ballpark Village owned free and clear, or is there a note on it? How are they servicing that note (if there is one), minimum payments, or retiring the debt as soon as possible? Did COVID affect revenue flow there—like it did everywhere else—and did they have to refinance that potential note?

So many questions, and I’m not going to simply make assumptions that everything is and has been hunky dory all along. Not when I’ve seen how COVID has impacted almost every other business out there not named Amazon.
 

matclone

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You are forgetting about Ball Park Village, which they own, and they are printing money over there. Plus they just completed the 2nd phase of the operation. How much longer should Cardinal fans pay to enrich Dewitt and the ownership group?

Look, I am not saying we should be in the top three in salary, but we should always be higher than 12th. It speaks of nothing but greed by the ownership group. Cardinal tickets are some of the highest in the league and yet we act like we are the Reds or Pirates, scraping to meet payroll. What happened to the promised bump in salaries once the new TV contract was signed? You know like 4 years ago.
I'm guessing the bottom line is the bottom line for all the owners including the DeWitts. That is our capitalist world.

I see Luis Garcia won the game for the Padres last night. Still wondering how the Cardinals let this ace reliever go other than a calculation that he would cost too much.
 

TomTreebow

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Just an update from the minor leagues..

Jordan Walker isn’t the only standout from the 2020 Draft class. Shortstop Masyn Winn turned it up a couple of notches at Peoria, hitting .349 with seven triples and eleven doubles (one HR) in only 129 AB. Toss in 15 stolen bases, great range and a 96 mph arm from the shortstop hole, and he looks like a building block of the future.

‘21 fifth rounder Gordon Graceffo has continued boosting his velocity since his junior year at Villinove. He hit 100 mph in the Spring, and has worked at 96-98 at Peoria. He has a .99 ERA there in eight starts, with 56 K’s and only 4 BB’s (a .68 WHIP) in 45 2/3 IP.

Matter of fact, he’s been even better than ‘21 first rounder Michael McGreevy, who has the control—but not that velocity. In 45 1/3 IP at Peoria, he also has only allowed 4 BB’s, but “only” has 41 K’s (.99 WHIP).

Winn, Graceffo and McGreevy have just been promoted to AA Springfield, where Winn will rejoin his big buddy Walker.

I’m optimistically hoping that if Winn and Walker,—both only 20—can continue to rake, they’ll both make the majors sometime later next year.

I don’t think I have to be quite that optimistic for Graceffo and McGreevy.
I could see Walker being ready by mid-next year but I think Winn's bat will need a little seasoning, which is just fine. Walker has just hit at every stop - low K's and even has shown some speed. As a prospect he was noted as a power bat with boom or bust potential, but his contact metrics have been outstanding and he's looking to be a legitimate middle of the order bat. Just a matter of where to stick him long-term. Gotta think it's either 1B or LF if O'Neill falls out of favor.

Winn could very well turn out to be our most talented current prospect, I just think he needs the most seasoning and time spent focusing only on being an everyday player (not a pitcher). He has an 80 grade arm and 65 grade speed. If he makes consistent contact, which he's been showing this year, then watch out. He's potentially Rafael Furcal.

Long ways to go and you never know how these play out (see Jared Kelenic, Jo Adell, Alex Kiriloff) but this is definitely the most everyday talent we've had in the system that I can ever remember. Gorman, Yepez, Donovan, Burleson, Carlson, Herrera all 25 or under and at AAA or MLB in addition to Winn and Walker. Props to Randy Flores on these past couple drafts which have been outstanding based on where the Cardinals have been picking. Still wish they would have plucked Bassit or Manaea from Oakland on the cheap in the offseason but they've got the powder to go get someone at the deadline based on how things play out.
 
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matclone

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I don't follow the minors a lot but did anyone think that Donovan or Yepez would have the positive impact they've had (so far) on the team?
 

Kaner04

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I don't follow the minors a lot but did anyone think that Donovan or Yepez would have the positive impact they've had (so far) on the team?
I thought they’d have an impact for sure. Yepez I thought could’ve made the team out of spring training as the DH. And at every level in the minors all Donovan does is hit. He’s a machine. I didn’t envision him being an everyday player this early but the guy just hits everything. But I also didn’t see the cardinals potentially having 2 NL rookie of the year candidates and they weren’t named Nolan Gorman. Although he could easily come into the conversation as well
 

Aclone

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I don't follow the minors a lot but did anyone think that Donovan or Yepez would have the positive impact they've had (so far) on the team?
Donovan looked more like a fringe utility guy. Like, to everyone. Lots of people in the know glowed over Yepez’s power once he finally started to put it together last year, but I was hesitant about a BA in the .280 range (iirc).

Guess we’ll see how they hold up in the long haul.
 

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