New class 5A for HS Football.

[Urbandale2013]

I know there is no great way to do this but how the hell is a place like Ottumwa supposed to be able to keep pace with schools like Waukee(s), Valley, Ankeny(s) (have heard the 3rd HS is already in the works there even). I'm sure some of the schools that will now be 4A put more players on the field then Ottumwa does year after year and would probably have more success even in a larger class.
this is where the real issue lies, the teams that will continue to struggle won't get any better now.

I know that’s the same issue with Urbandale. While the city continues to grow the district is land locked and not growing. I find it frustrating that they regularly overachieve based on their enrollment.

I think the rolling participation number is how you have to go. It’s really a lot of the issue and if you have it be a rolling average it prevents gaming the system.

 

[VeloClone]

then you just use total #s out for freshmen-varsity, not how many are out for each individual team. I mean we pulled freshmen up every once and a while even at Ankeny, Lanning was a freshman when he started varsity my junior year.

There would then be teams that would start cutting players from the freshman and JV teams to keep their numbers down so they don't have to move up a class.

I remember when I was in 7th grade visiting a school. We brought both our 7th and 8th grade teams to that game because they only had 12 players on their combined 7th and 8th grade squad. I felt bad for the one kid sitting on the bench next to his coaches.

 

[Urbandale2013]

If 5A and 4A were instead 3 equal classes it would be:
6A 2267-1119
5A 1117-677
4A 674-397

That starts to be a little more reasonable. 24 teams with 8 playoff participants each.

I’d be interested in something like this. It gets the discrepancy down to a max of about double. The 4A and 5A are really down there at about 65-70% bigger.

 

[Sigmapolis]

It’s crazy to me that Waukee and Valley are almost 4 DCG’s or 2 Bettendorfs.

When I was in high school (early 2000s), Waukee was in the same conference as Boone.

Waukee is now #1 on your list (2,267) and Boone is #61 (482).

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Should make all parochial schools bump up a class now in football.

As a parent of kids who go to a smaller private school that was bumped up a few years ago from 1A to 2A in football I can honestly say.......the competition every week was tougher in 1A.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

When I was in high school (early 2000s), Waukee was in the same conference as Boone.

Waukee is now #1 on your list (2,267) and Boone is #61 (482).

Little Hawkeye conference I think in the 90s had Indianola, Norwalk, Waukee and Johnston.

 

[CycloneDaddy]

Little Hawkeye conference I think in the 90s had Indianola, Norwalk, Waukee and Johnston.

My brain has failed me in old age. We must have just played Waukee and Indianola a lot back in the glory days.

Current Members
Dallas Center-Grimes, 2013-14 thru PRESENT
Grinnell, 1996-97 thru PRESENT
Indianola, 2016-17 thru PRESENT
Newton, 2006-07 thru PRESENT
Norwalk, 1983-84 thru PRESENT
Oskaloosa, 1998-99 thru PRESENT
Pella, 1996-97 thru PRESENT
Pella Christian, 1991-92 thru PRESENT

Former Members
Boone, 1991-92 thru 2008-09
Carlisle, 1988-89 thru 1995-96
Clarke, 1983-84 thru 1995-96
Johnston, 1988-89 thru 1997-98
Knoxville, 1996-97 thru 2013-14
Nevada, 1988-89 thru 1995-96
Perry, 1988-89 thru 1990-91
Saydel, 1983-84 thru 1990-91
South Tama, 2006-07 thru 2010-11
Waukee, 2000-01 thru 2005-06
Winterset, 1983-84 thru 1997-98

 

[theshadow]

When I was in high school (early 2000s), Waukee was in the same conference as Boone.

These schools were all in the same Class 2A football district in 1997. Their 2020 class is in parentheses.

Waukee (4A)
Dallas Center-Grimes (3A)
Prairie Valley (now Southeast Valley; 1A)
Interstate 35 (1A)
West Central Valley, Stuart (1A)
Ogden (A)
Nodaway Valley (A)
Audubon (8-man)

 

[LivntheCyLife]

This is something I’d like to know. I’m doubtful but I hope Urbandale is 4A. Iowa is weird I think in our school breakdown. There’s a lot of variance on the top end. I just want to get away from Valley and Dowling.

I'd guess Iowa has a lot less multi-high school school districts than some other states. It's a lot easier for districts to balance high school size than it is when you have lots of one high school districts.

 

[LivntheCyLife]

For 5A and 4A model it off of soccers promotion and relegation. Maybe make the 5A class a little smaller.

I think there should at least be dynamic scheduling. Have a last game of the year for teams that don't make the playoffs paired up by record. Then perhaps even set up an early non-district/group game the next year based on record. Give all the teams a couple more games that would likely be competitive.

 

[BleedCycloneRed]

"I think illinois has public and catholic leagues but that might be unique to Chicago".

Responding to the above comment:

Most of the catholic schools in Chicago area play in their own conferences separate from the public schools, but come playoff time they all play in the same state playoff system. But if you are private school, the state uses a multiplier to determine you enrollment figure (I believe it is 1.6 times your actual enrollment). Still works out well for the all boys catholic schools as they still end in having more males in their school then the other school in their class. Not so well for the coed parochial schools.

The other thing Illinois does different is they don't define what class you are in until the end of the season. Once all the teams complete their season they than rank them in order by their records, and the top 256 teams get in (8 classes of 32 teams each). Not sure how they determine the tiebreaker at the bottom of the list. After they determine which 256 qualify for the playoffs, then they resort the list by enrollment. And the largest 32 teams are then 8A, then next 32 are 7A, down to 1A. The result is one year a school may qualify as an 8A team (and be one of the smallest enrollment 8A qualifiers), then the next year be a 7A team and be one of the largest 7A qualifiers (ditto for all classes). All depends upon which schools qualify each year and if the school's enrollment is near the cut line. Clearly most schools are in the same class each year, but there are those schools that bounce back and force.

 

[theshadow]

I think there should at least be dynamic scheduling. Have a last game of the year for teams that don't make the playoffs paired up by record. Then perhaps even set up an early non-district/group game the next year based on record. Give all the teams a couple more games that would likely be competitive.

The scheduling formula that was supposed to be used in 4A for 2020 was along those lines, with half the season being games against teams on the same or similar "tier."

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

BEDS numbers comes from the information that the school sends to the state for funding, so they tend to be accurate to maybe a little high.
But for football, those numbers do not tell you the most important thing, "how many kids are out for the team?" Without that number, they are useless to determine the actual classification for schools.

The better way would be to have each school send a roster that lists all players out for football for the past 5 years. Use those numbers, updated every two years, to determine each schools classification. All this information is posted online for every school to look over the numbers, so if school A, states they have 60 kids out for football 9-12, but the teams that they play look at the roster sheet sent to them for Freshman, JV, Varsity see that they count 85 kids, they turn the school into the state.

All private schools play up a class over their enrollment, only way to make it fair to the public schools.

 

[JimmyChitwood]

My brain has failed me in old age. We must have just played Waukee and Indianola a lot back in the glory days.

Current Members
Dallas Center-Grimes, 2013-14 thru PRESENT
Grinnell, 1996-97 thru PRESENT
Indianola, 2016-17 thru PRESENT
Newton, 2006-07 thru PRESENT
Norwalk, 1983-84 thru PRESENT
Oskaloosa, 1998-99 thru PRESENT
Pella, 1996-97 thru PRESENT
Pella Christian, 1991-92 thru PRESENT

Former Members
Boone, 1991-92 thru 2008-09
Carlisle, 1988-89 thru 1995-96
Clarke, 1983-84 thru 1995-96
Johnston, 1988-89 thru 1997-98
Knoxville, 1996-97 thru 2013-14
Nevada, 1988-89 thru 1995-96
Perry, 1988-89 thru 1990-91
Saydel, 1983-84 thru 1990-91
South Tama, 2006-07 thru 2010-11
Waukee, 2000-01 thru 2005-06
Winterset, 1983-84 thru 1997-98

Winterset was a juggernaught in that conference back in the day

 

[BigJCy]

"I think illinois has public and catholic leagues but that might be unique to Chicago".

Responding to the above comment:

Most of the catholic schools in Chicago area play in their own conferences separate from the public schools, but come playoff time they all play in the same state playoff system. But if you are private school, the state uses a multiplier to determine you enrollment figure (I believe it is 1.6 times your actual enrollment). Still works out well for the all boys catholic schools as they still end in having more males in their school then the other school in their class. Not so well for the coed parochial schools.

Thought that was the case. The Private schools still do pretty well but at least makes it a bit harder for them.

I think in Texas the Private Schools have their own Playoff System. Them and the Public schools are separate.

 

[DFWClone]

For each classification, the state of Texas does 2 different brackets for the playoffs.

4 teams make the playoffs from each division and the top 2 enrollments in the division make bracket A and the bottom 2 enrollments make bracket B.

Seems like that may need to happen in Iowa to help curb the enrollment gaps.

 

[iowa_wildcat]

This will be a mind blower for the young'uns. Back in 1988 Jefferson-Scranton played Ankeny in the girls district basketball finals in Boone. The Jeffettes coasted to a ho hum win.

 

[theshadow]

This will be a mind blower for the young'uns. Back in 1988 Jefferson-Scranton played Ankeny in the girls district basketball finals in Boone. The Jeffettes coasted to a ho hum win.

1991. There were only two classes in six-player then, and the regional winners combined into one bracket at state (with 10 teams from 1A and 6 from 2A). For example, Charles City played Guttenberg in one of the other "2A" regional finals.

Five-player, still the new kid on the block, was just one class and one 8-team bracket.

 

[1100011CS]

They need to change *how* they're classified. Not just add more classes.

 

[BikeSkiClone]

My brain has failed me in old age. We must have just played Waukee and Indianola a lot back in the glory days.

Current Members
Dallas Center-Grimes, 2013-14 thru PRESENT
Grinnell, 1996-97 thru PRESENT
Indianola, 2016-17 thru PRESENT
Newton, 2006-07 thru PRESENT
Norwalk, 1983-84 thru PRESENT
Oskaloosa, 1998-99 thru PRESENT
Pella, 1996-97 thru PRESENT
Pella Christian, 1991-92 thru PRESENT

Former Members
Boone, 1991-92 thru 2008-09
Carlisle, 1988-89 thru 1995-96
Clarke, 1983-84 thru 1995-96
Johnston, 1988-89 thru 1997-98
Knoxville, 1996-97 thru 2013-14
Nevada, 1988-89 thru 1995-96
Perry, 1988-89 thru 1990-91
Saydel, 1983-84 thru 1990-91
South Tama, 2006-07 thru 2010-11
Waukee, 2000-01 thru 2005-06
Winterset, 1983-84 thru 1997-98

Indianola was CIML (Central Division) from early 90s until they went to LHC in 2016. When I was a student there early-mid 2000s, we were pretty consistently about the 45th of the 48 biggest schools and would get walloped in most sports (football especially) by Ankeny, Valley, etc. Those teams were fielding full 9/10/JV/V teams in every sport and we'd be lucky to get two full squads. Waukee would fit in there now obviously but IDK if they were even 4A back then? I know they weren't in the CIML.

Indianola moved from CIML to LHC to be more competitive and play against similar-sized schools, but I think now they may be the biggest in the LHC. They're basically in a 3A conference but when it comes to playoffs/state, they're in 4A and I think that hurts them because LHC competition isn't anywhere near as tough (across the board) as CIML so they get rude awakenings post-season. And I'm pretty sure it's a factor in why they lost some stud wrestlers and Maggie Espenmiller-McGraw a few years ago to SEP, who is still in the CIML and competitive all year against top 4A (3A wrestling) teams.