NC State players!

[Scott]

When top talent was leaving OU due to the coaching changes ppl said we wouldnt go after them due to the fact of being in there conference and they would have to sit out... well theres another chance with 2 top 100 recruits getting releases from NC State per www.cstv.com

# Two Top 100 Class 2006 prospects, forward Dan Werner of Lincroft-Christian Brothers, NJ., and guard Larry Davis of Middle Village-Christ the King, NY., have received requested conditional releases from North Carolina State following the coaching change.

 

[Drew21]

That would be nice. It would just add to the talent that we are going to have in a couple of years. I think the teams in 1-3 years are going to be some of the best the programs seen.

 

[Cloney22]

Yeah it would be awesome to get some 4 year guys that are legit

 

[Drews79]

With GMAC and the new coaching staff, whoever we can get right now for 3+ years will be major contributors and big 12 winning type players for this program in the future. I have the upmost respect for coach GMAC. We already have more talent than UNI did last year and look at what he did with that team. What do you all think?

 

[Wesley]

Ben Jacobsen, Grant Stout, and Eric Coleman were their best players. Are any of them NBA caliber? Probably not. But they had A for hustle and followed THE PLAN.

 

[discombobulated]

They followed what plan? be competitive in a mid major and get booted in the first round. In case you all haven't noticed, one NBA guy can change a whole teams future. Think Wade at marquette, szerbiac(no idea how to spell that), fazickus (again, what is with these names?), etc. Once every ten or so years, a team actually has some moderate success with hustle and whatnot, but the odds of being the next george mason are slim.
Wesely, I don't understand what you think these UNI players had that our guys didn't. In a three year stretch we were more successfull. In addittion, they would not have been much better in the 12, if at all. It is a whole different world Mcd has moved into and the fact that he has got one guy who was being persued by uni, and has offered 2 morer for next year, worries me greatly. Uni may have beat ISU in football 10 or so years ago, they may have won the gateway conference that year, but anyone that thinks they would have even been near .500 in the 12 is smoking crack.

 

[Cydkar]

Sounds to me like you would be worried if ISU actually did well so you'd have nothing to ***** about.

 

[CyLyte]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
They followed what plan? be competitive in a mid major and get booted in the first round. In case you all haven't noticed, one NBA guy can change a whole teams future. Think Wade at marquette, szerbiac(no idea how to spell that), fazickus (again, what is with these names?), etc. Once every ten or so years, a team actually has some moderate success with hustle and whatnot, but the odds of being the next george mason are slim.
Wesely, I don't understand what you think these UNI players had that our guys didn't. In a three year stretch we were more successfull. In addittion, they would not have been much better in the 12, if at all. It is a whole different world Mcd has moved into and the fact that he has got one guy who was being persued by uni, and has offered 2 morer for next year, worries me greatly. Uni may have beat ISU in football 10 or so years ago, they may have won the gateway conference that year, but anyone that thinks they would have even been near .500 in the 12 is smoking crack.
[/b][/quote]

In a three year stretch we were more successful? Yeah we made three tourney appearances in a row in that time and knocked off a Final Four participant in their own house thisyear. Yeah we were more successful. What a moron.

 

[Wesley]

The UNI plan was to pass the ball around hoping for the easy buckerty inside, play mam on man defense, hope the other team makes a mistake at the end, substitute freely and use 10 guys. Waiting to see if this is the ISU plan.

 

[benjay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
They followed what plan? be competitive in a mid major and get booted in the first round. In case you all haven't noticed, one NBA guy can change a whole teams future. Think Wade at marquette, szerbiac(no idea how to spell that), fazickus (again, what is with these names?), etc. Once every ten or so years, a team actually has some moderate success with hustle and whatnot, but the odds of being the next george mason are slim.
Wesely, I don't understand what you think these UNI players had that our guys didn't. In a three year stretch we were more successfull. In addittion, they would not have been much better in the 12, if at all. It is a whole different world Mcd has moved into and the fact that he has got one guy who was being persued by uni, and has offered 2 morer for next year, worries me greatly. Uni may have beat ISU in football 10 or so years ago, they may have won the gateway conference that year, but anyone that thinks they would have even been near .500 in the 12 is smoking crack.
[/b][/quote]

How do you figure we were more successful? We had twice the talent, drastically underachieved, and only made one NCAA tournament. UNI played with unrated players, overachieved on every count, and got an at-large bid all three years.

Give me the team that overachieves for once, please.

 

[MNclone]

I think I agree with discombobulated on this one. To say that we do not need great talent to win in the Big 12 is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone has the arguement that mid majors aren't so mid anymore, but I disagree. Sure, every year there are a handful of teams that will knock off a a big name school, or suprise a few people in the tournement. But here is the problem, those teams are senior laden one-hit wonders. Sure there are certain teams that can reach this senior laden plateau more frequently than others, (eg UNI, Creighton, Gonzaga, etc) But to say that these teams can compete on a day in and day out basis in a power conference is simply foolishness.

We have to get big talent to be able to compete with the big talent going to the Kansas' and Texas' of the world. Hard work and experience can go a long ways, but that won't cut it when you have only a 4 year window to work with a player.

 

[CyLyte]

Being senior laden will be our niche. Teams like KU and Texas have to replace their talent every two years because the guys they target are going pro early. I'll take some guys a rung down the talent ladder(not that we will indefinitely because GMac can recruit) but a rung up the experience ladder and do just fine. How do you suppose George Mason did what they did.

 

[benjay]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think I agree with discombobulated on this one. To say that we do not need great talent to win in the Big 12 is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone has the arguement that mid majors aren't so mid anymore, but I disagree. Sure, every year there are a handful of teams that will knock off a a big name school, or suprise a few people in the tournement. But here is the problem, those teams are senior laden one-hit wonders. Sure there are certain teams that can reach this senior laden plateau more frequently than others, (eg UNI, Creighton, Gonzaga, etc) But to say that these teams can compete on a day in and day out basis in a power conference is simply foolishness.

We have to get big talent to be able to compete with the big talent going to the Kansas' and Texas' of the world. Hard work and experience can go a long ways, but that won't cut it when you have only a 4 year window to work with a player.
[/b][/quote]

Nobody's saying we don't need talent. The point is that our talent-laden team last year drastically underachieved. What good is talent if we can't coach it? I'll take an unheralded recruiting class that overachieves over a 4 star class that doesn't pan out any day of the year.

What's best is I do not think we are going to have talentless classes with McDermott. He'll recruit big-name players and he'll coach them to fruition.

 

[melkor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
I think I agree with discombobulated on this one. To say that we do not need great talent to win in the Big 12 is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone has the arguement that mid majors aren't so mid anymore, but I disagree. Sure, every year there are a handful of teams that will knock off a a big name school, or suprise a few people in the tournement. But here is the problem, those teams are senior laden one-hit wonders. Sure there are certain teams that can reach this senior laden plateau more frequently than others, (eg UNI, Creighton, Gonzaga, etc) But to say that these teams can compete on a day in and day out basis in a power conference is simply foolishness.

We have to get big talent to be able to compete with the big talent going to the Kansas' and Texas' of the world. Hard work and experience can go a long ways, but that won't cut it when you have only a 4 year window to work with a player.
[/b][/quote]

Thank god, there are a few people that are quaffing the GMac kool-aid. I agree with both Discombobulated and MNclone. GMac is not a good enough coach to outcoach Bill Self, Bobby Knight, et al with a serious talent differential. That being said, I hope McDermott does get the talent to Ames and does compete for Big XII titles, but all this talk of coaching up lesser talent to compete with the big boys is silly. You can coach up at team to a certain point, but good coaching has it's limits.

 

[Cydkar]

And Wayne Morgan was not a good enough coach to beat those coaches with similar talent.

 

[pulse]

I agree, talking up good coaching with marginal talent is idiotic. That right there is a general decription of mid-major conferences. That is why good mid-major coaches get offers and take jobs iin power conferences, so they can coach and recruit better players. If a coach in a major conference can't recruit great/good players he'll only be marginally successfull if that. Great coach and great/good players = great/good team. Anything else won't get you consistency.

 

[URBCLONE]

Good post, Pulse. I agree with your formula good coaching + good/great talent = success. Other formulations will give you an occasional good year here or there, but will not generate consistent performance. I think that is what separates a program like Kentucky or UCLA from the rest. Their coaches are expected to win championships and get the players to put them in position to do so.

 

[EggMcClone]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
And Wayne Morgan was not a good enough coach to beat those coaches with similar talent.
[/b][/quote]

Really? I remember him beating both of those teams two years ago.

I'm hopeful that GMac will get it done but those that are pinning all their hopes on "great coaching" could be in for a rude awakening. This is the Big 12, you're going to meet a really good coach more often than not so you'd better have some serious talent if you want to compete for conference titles. Yeah, having a team with some pretty good seniors will get ISU into the tourney quite a bit but I want more than that.

Just to be clear maybe he will be that coach but I cringe when I see people acting like he is John Wooden and can turn anybody into an all Big 12 player.

 

[benjay]

You guys are reading too much into my posts. I am not saying he can take marginal talent and win Big 12 titles. I'm just saying his teams overachieve, whereas Morgan's underachieved. I'd rather see a team overachieve.

You can't take McDermott's first year as an accurate meter of his recruiting ability. He will get good talent, and the talent he gets will overachieve.

 

[cyclonedrew]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Thank god, there are a few people that are quaffing the GMac kool-aid. I agree with both Discombobulated and MNclone. GMac is not a good enough coach to outcoach Bill Self, Bobby Knight, et al with a serious talent differential. That being said, I hope McDermott does get the talent to Ames and does compete for Big XII titles, but all this talk of coaching up lesser talent to compete with the big boys is silly. You can coach up at team to a certain point, but good coaching has it's limits.[/b][/quote]

Bill Self one and done last 2 years

Bob Knight No tourny last year....


Yeah they scare me... How about the fact that Bill Self came from Tulsa with a stint at Illinois.. How about Bob knight got fired at Indiana because they were no longer making the tourny..

Last I check the big 12 flamed out last year in the tourny minus a team...

Let's give Gmac a little more coaching credit here folks... There is a reason all of the coaches around the country rave about him...