National Duals

[BirdOfWar]

I'm with NEI on this one... JP would be a damn idiot to put wrestling below track and field I dont care what personal connection he has with the program. In the state of Iowa, wrestling will always draw more attention than track and field period, and if he can't see that and figure that out than maybe it is time for him to have his head examined.

JP put in his goals from the start that he wanted to do well in the Directors Cup. Track & field and cross country give you more bang for your buck in that regard. Wrestling will definitely draw more attention in state than t&f, but either way I would guess they'll both lose money. So if they are both losing money, of course he would try and do better overall as an athletic department by making sure t&f is successful. I'm not saying it's right, but there is definitely logic behind it.

And Wrestling has seen upgrades just like some of the other sports, so they are not being completely ignored.

 

[mikem]

He's been riding me hard for a while. It's his turn now. It would be nice to see him own up to his smoke and mirrors routine in the UNI thread.

Hell, I would just like to know if he actually has Iowa State wrestling season tickets.

He NEVER once has answered that question, when blasting away at the Iowa State program while singing the praises of his hawks, and now panthers

 

[ISU22CY]

JP put in his goals from the start that he wanted to do well in the Directors Cup. Track & field and cross country give you more bang for your buck in that regard. Wrestling will definitely draw more attention in state than t&f, but either way I would guess they'll both lose money. So if they are both losing money, of course he would try and do better overall as an athletic department by making sure t&f is successful. I'm not saying it's right, but there is definitely logic behind it.

And Wrestling has seen upgrades just like some of the other sports, so they are not being completely ignored.

His logic is flawed because it isn't what he wants it is about what the fans want, and what is going to draw more fans? Wrestling. And yes they have had upgrades which were much needed and thankful that those happened. Obviously you put the most money into the sports that generate revenue, and what should be followed in my mind is money put into the sports that have a rich history of being competitive nationally. And I don't buy the whole overall athletic department being successful with the DC from him because everyone knows his ties to track and field.

 

[NEICyFan]

Hell, I would just like to know if he actually has Iowa State wrestling season tickets.

He NEVER once has answered that question, when blasting away at the Iowa State program while singing the praises of his hawks, and now panthers

Who? Me? I think I have posted before that I do not. Life does not allow for this, unfortunately.

I didn't realize that is a prerequisite for offering an opinion.

 

[Land Grant]

With the exception of a few guys here and there, lack of aggression is a (perhaps the) universal problem in college wrestling today. Brands, Smith, etc. are really no better about this than Jackson. Current rules encourage a guy to get a takedown (often defensive) and then to hang on an ankle and ride out the match. Refs swallow whistles re: stalling. Cannot fault the athletes either; many NCAA champions have come this way. It sucks and is the bane of our sport.

That said, I also am on the fence not just with the coach, but with the program as a whole. To face facts, ISU has not been a consistent king of the mountain force since Nichols and that's long long ago. KJ may not be the solution, but he's also not the whole problem. Wish someone could figure out what is.

I've been on the fence this year. As a season ticket holder i really liked what i saw at the end of last year and the NCAA's. But have been a little disappointed. I think the making is there to have a good squad but my one big issue since KJ has been here is the lack of aggression. I hate the Brands in Iowa City but you know that about every wrestler that goes on the mat, they are going to be aggressive. I think Nickerson has done a solid job so far and the same way with Paulson. And I'm with the crowd that thinks JP could give 2 s***s about wrestling. Wish that would change but just don't see that happening.

 

[NEICyFan]

His logic is flawed because it isn't what he wants it is about what the fans want, and what is going to draw more fans? Wrestling. And yes they have had upgrades which were much needed and thankful that those happened. Obviously you put the most money into the sports that generate revenue, and what should be followed in my mind is money put into the sports that have a rich history of being competitive nationally. And I don't buy the whole overall athletic department being successful with the DC from him because everyone knows his ties to track and field.

CC and track both cost more to be competitive (recruiting and travel) and bring in next to nothing from a revenue standpoint.

 

[ISU22CY]

CC and track both cost more to be competitive (recruiting and travel) and bring in next to nothing from a revenue standpoint.

That's my whole point.. wrestling vs track/CC the choice should be wrestling from a budget standpoint along with a nationally rich history.

 

[ISU22CY]

With the exception of a few guys here and there, lack of aggression is a (perhaps the) universal problem in college wrestling today. Brands, Smith, etc. are really no better about this than Jackson. Current rules encourage a guy to get a takedown (often defensive) and then to hang on an ankle and ride out the match. Refs swallow whistles re: stalling. Cannot fault the athletes either; many NCAA champions have come this way. It sucks and is the bane of our sport.

That said, I also am on the fence not just with the coach, but with the program as a whole. To face facts, ISU has not been a consistent king of the mountain force since Nichols and that's long long ago. KJ may not be the solution, but he's also not the whole problem. Wish someone could figure out what is.

Very good point. I do have to give credit Jim had a good stretch minus the one year finishing at 9th. Cael did a pretty good job for his short stint while he was here but you are right we havent been consistently playing king of the mountain year after year since the Doctor.

 

[Scott34]

With the exception of a few guys here and there, lack of aggression is a (perhaps the) universal problem in college wrestling today. Brands, Smith, etc. are really no better about this than Jackson. Current rules encourage a guy to get a takedown (often defensive) and then to hang on an ankle and ride out the match. Refs swallow whistles re: stalling. Cannot fault the athletes either; many NCAA champions have come this way. It sucks and is the bane of our sport.

That said, I also am on the fence not just with the coach, but with the program as a whole. To face facts, ISU has not been a consistent king of the mountain force since Nichols and that's long long ago. KJ may not be the solution, but he's also not the whole problem. Wish someone could figure out what is.

Yes to a certain degree. I hate comparing the 2 but Iowa State doesn't wrestle the same as Iowa. We are young so I let some of that slide. We are getting better but the part that has me a little worried is that this year hasn't improved much. Last year this was when the team got better. This year it kinda appears to of stalled out.

 

[Scott34]

That's my whole point.. wrestling vs track/CC the choice should be wrestling from a budget standpoint along with a nationally rich history.

You know that's not going to happen because JP's son is in track and field.

 

[BirdOfWar]

CC and track both cost more to be competitive (recruiting and travel) and bring in next to nothing from a revenue standpoint.

I have no idea what costs for either are, but mens and womens cross country and track and field(4 sports), has 7 people on staff. Wrestling has 4 people on staff.

 

[ISU22CY]

You know that's not going to happen because JP's son is in track and field.

Yes that is why I have stated a few posts back his "Tie to track and field"

 

[ISU22CY]

I have no idea what costs for either are, but mens and womens cross country and track and field(4 sports), has 7 people on staff. Wrestling has 4 people on staff.

Could you elaborate some more what you mean by this?

 

[BirdOfWar]

Could you elaborate some more what you mean by this?

I mentioned how track and cross country gave more bang for the buck in relation to the directors cup. Someone else stated they both cost more to be competitive(recruiting and travel) and don't bring any revenue, so I was just pointing out that 4 sports have 7 people on staff total, while wrestling has 4.

None of these sports are going to create revenue. Wrestling may lose less money if the team does well, but even if JP is biased towards t&f and cc you can't ignore the fact that those sports would do more for the athletic department than wrestling if they do well in regards to overall performance.

The argument of "because of our history he should throw more money at it" is silly IMO. I just don't think this is a budget issue.

 

[mikem]

Who? Me? I think I have posted before that I do not. Life does not allow for this, unfortunately.

I didn't realize that is a prerequisite for offering an opinion.

Don't care about your differing opinion, but if you don't support the program financially like so many of us do, you are not doing anything to solve the issue, same with football, basketball, and any other sport.

You are quick to criticize, but if you aren't helping, the words are either hollow, or you are here with a personal agenda. Judging by your posting history, I am pretty sure we all know which it is.

 

[jbhtexas]

I have no idea what costs for either are, but mens and womens cross country and track and field(4 sports), has 7 people on staff. Wrestling has 4 people on staff.

There are two NCAA reports that provide useful information for discussions that often come up here:

The gender equity report shows expenditures on various sports. It usually lags a bit time wise (the current one is dated, as they are about due for a new one):
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/GEQS10.pdf

The participation report shows actual number of athletes participating in various sports:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/PR2014.pdf

Research | NCAA Public Home Page - NCAA.org

Average revenues and expenses by sport for FBS schools can be found on page 36 of the gender equity report.

 

[ISU22CY]

I mentioned how track and cross country gave more bang for the buck in relation to the directors cup. Someone else stated they both cost more to be competitive(recruiting and travel) and don't bring any revenue, so I was just pointing out that 4 sports have 7 people on staff total, while wrestling has 4.

None of these sports are going to create revenue. Wrestling may lose less money if the team does well, but even if JP is biased towards t&f and cc you can't ignore the fact that those sports would do more for the athletic department than wrestling if they do well in regards to overall performance.

The argument of "because of our history he should throw more money at it" is silly IMO. I just don't think this is a budget issue.

Okay i wasn't trying to bash on you just wasnt fully understanding the 7v4 thing. But I'm confused on what you mean do more for the athletic department? Financially? Not track and field. A couple spot pump in some cup? Yes track and field. Youre right it isnt a budget issue, it is JP stance on where he regards certain sports, and my opinion is it is foolish where he puts some of the sports other's opinions will disagree with me which is fine. You hear more about people referring to Iowa State's Wrestling program than our track and field, that has to do with our history, that does more for an athletic department then some cup again in my opinion.

Edit: Should expect me to want to support wrestling more, since I'm in a wrestling forum.

 

[BirdOfWar]

Okay i wasn't trying to bash on you just wasnt fully understanding the 7v4 thing. But I'm confused on what you mean do more for the athletic department? Financially? Not track and field. A couple spot pump in some cup? Yes track and field. Youre right it isnt a budget issue, it is JP stance on where he regards certain sports, and my opinion is it is foolish where he puts some of the sports other's opinions will disagree with me which is fine. You hear more about people referring to Iowa State's Wrestling program than our track and field, that has to do with our history, that does more for an athletic department then some cup again in my opinion.

Edit: Should expect me to want to support wrestling more, since I'm in a wrestling forum.

I don't blame you for supporting wrestling. I very much prefer wrestling over t&f or cc.

I was just trying to make the point that I think there is more to it than just JP's bias toward the other sports. I think most wrestling supporters would admit there is no easy answer to getting back to where everyone wants the team to be, and there is no sure thing. If a coaching change were to occur, the pool of people that could really turn things around is not very large.

 

[jbhtexas]

Okay i wasn't trying to bash on you just wasnt fully understanding the 7v4 thing. But I'm confused on what you mean do more for the athletic department? Financially? Not track and field. A couple spot pump in some cup? Yes track and field. Youre right it isnt a budget issue, it is JP stance on where he regards certain sports, and my opinion is it is foolish where he puts some of the sports other's opinions will disagree with me which is fine. You hear more about people referring to Iowa State's Wrestling program than our track and field, that has to do with our history, that does more for an athletic department then some cup again in my opinion.

Edit: Should expect me to want to support wrestling more, since I'm in a wrestling forum.

According to the report I quoted above, the median net expense (expense-revenue) for men's track/cross country is $614,900, while the median net expense for wrestling is $442,200. However, for that $614,900, the school gets 3 sports counted towards the 7 men's sports required for participation in NCAA Division 1 (cross country (fall sport), indoor track (winter sport), outdoor track (spring sport)).

So from the perspective of fulfilling NCAA participation requirements, men's track/cross country provides significantly more "bang for the buck" than wrestling does. If you took away men's indoor track, men's outdoor track, and men's cross country (sports which which you seem to think should be low priority), how many men's sports would ISU have?

 

[NEICyFan]

I have no idea what costs for either are, but mens and womens cross country and track and field(4 sports), has 7 people on staff. Wrestling has 4 people on staff.

And they are likewise compensated. Martin Smith earns twice as much as Kevin Jackson.

T&F/CC also don't host more than 1-2 events each year. For the rest of their events they have to travel--they do a lot more traveling than the wrestling program. There are also more people traveling to each of these events, especially for track and field. Additionally, wrestling needs very little in terms of equipment.

Finally, wrestling puts more butts in the seats than T&F.

I would hope Pollard isn't making long term decisions based on his kid competing at ISU for a few years.