Myron Medcalf all but certain Fred is going to the NBA

  • After Iowa State won the Big 12, a Cyclone made a wonderful offer to We Will that now increases our match. Now all gifts up to $400,000 between now and the Final 4 will be matched. Please consider giving at We Will Collective.
    This notice can be dismissed using the upper right corner X button.

BallSoHard4Cy

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2012
7,203
998
113
Ames
Will Fred go to the NBA someday? Sure, maybe. Will he go after this year? Um, no. What coaching position do you see opening up in a stable situation where his family won't have to move so far away? Stevens got 6 years with the Celtics, but he's barely getting paid more than Fred. It wouldn't be smart to move right now.
 

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
Well Hoiberg is a better coach than Roy.

That's not even the point here even if true. Roy Williams has been coaching in Division 1 since 1978 and has been a head coach since 1988. He's one of the all time winningest coaches in the history of the sport with over 700 wins including 2 NCAA championships. He's only missed the NCAA tournament once (his first year they were ineligible) and in that year, they were the runner ups in the NIT, in 25 or so seasons.

Yet, he doesn't get paid much more than Hoiberg. Hoiberg's been in this for under 4 seasons. He's getting paid fairly and if he does really really well this year, I'm sure he'll get a raise again.
 

madcityCY

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2006
5,907
141
63
40
Madison, WI
I'd bet Fred's salary (if I had it) that he WILL get phone calls if not offers from NBA teams this coming spring. If he turns them down this spring, they'll be calling back in the spring of '15, then '16... and so on.

Medcalf knows Fred well - he penned this lengthy interview this summer - which covers just about every angle of Fred as a coach, and ISU as a job. I think it's safe to say Pollard is more realistic about this than 90% of fans.

NCAAM "The Mayor" succeeds his way - ESPN
 

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
^ Hoiberg's been getting calls from NBA teams for awhile. There's no doubt that will happen. Old news really. Getting phone calls means nothing. I get messages 1-2 times a week on LinkedIn from people wanting to hire me away from my current company - it doesn't mean I take any of them seriously.
 

swarthmoreCY

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2008
16,374
736
83
Here nor there
That's not even the point here even if true. Roy Williams has been coaching in Division 1 since 1978 and has been a head coach since 1988. He's one of the all time winningest coaches in the history of the sport with over 700 wins including 2 NCAA championships. He's only missed the NCAA tournament once (his first year they were ineligible) and in that year, they were the runner ups in the NIT, in 25 or so seasons.

Yet, he doesn't get paid much more than Hoiberg. Hoiberg's been in this for under 4 seasons. He's getting paid fairly and if he does really really well this year, I'm sure he'll get a raise again.
In sports your market value is not about what you have done, but what they think you will do. Obviously the former has some influence on the latter, but only as far as an initial assessment.
 

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
Yep, comparing Hoiberg's market value to 63 year-old Roy's is silly.

63 year old Roy who has over 700 wins and missed the NCAA tournament exactly once (and still almost won the NIT), has been to the Elite Eight 11 times, Final Four 8 times, been the runner up 2 times, and won the championship 2 times.
 

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
In sports your market value is not about what you have done, but what they think you will do. Obviously the former has some influence on the latter, but only as far as an initial assessment.

Let's stop acting as if Roy Williams' success was all like 10+ years ago. He's still averaging 28 wins and just under 10 losses a year in the last five years alone. You can look at exactly one year by any normal standard as being a let down, in which they still almost won the NIT (runner up).

Since going to UNC in 2003, he's been to the Final Four 3 times, won 2 championships, and been to 6 Elite Eights, yet he still makes under $2 million a year. Does he deserve more? Absolutely, but it puts things into perspective, and still at what he makes puts him at about top 20 highest paid coaches in the game. Coach K of course is #1 and nobody even comes close to him at over $7 million/year. The next highest is Rick Pitino at over $2 million less than Coach K - just under $5 million total.

Giving Hoiberg $3 million/year would put him at #7 highest paid and he won't see that money until/if he gets to the Final 4 and/or wins a championship in my opinion. I could see $2 million easily though.
 
Last edited:

Rhoadhoused

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2010
11,211
245
63
32
Ames, IA
Let's stop acting as if Roy Williams' success was all like 10+ years ago. He's still averaging 28 wins and just under 10 losses a year in the last five years alone. You can look at exactly one year by any normal standard as being a let down, in which they still almost won the NIT (runner up).

Since going to UNC in 2003, he's been to the Final Four 3 times, won 2 championships, and been to 6 Elite Eights, yet he still makes under $2 million a year. Does he deserve more? Absolutely, but it puts things into perspective, and still at what he makes puts him at about top 20 highest paid coaches in the game. Coach K of course is #1 and nobody even comes close to him at over $7 million/year. The next highest is Rick Pitino at just over $4 million, which is $3 million/year under coach K and that's at #2.
Wow, he played in the national title game even in a down year.
 

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
Wow, he played in the national title game even in a down year.

I don't like Roy Williams as much as any of you do, but putting down his accomplishments and success during his career is extremely naive. I know it's hard to do, but you don't have to like a guy to still recognize them as having success. Facts are facts.

It reminds me of my friend who's a huge Michigan fan who will do anything to put down a player of a rival Big Ten team no matter how good they are.
 

swarthmoreCY

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2008
16,374
736
83
Here nor there
63 year old Roy who has over 700 wins and missed the NCAA tournament exactly once (and still almost won the NIT), has been to the Elite Eight 11 times, Final Four 8 times, been the runner up 2 times, and won the championship 2 times.
And does not have the NBA driving up his market value. If you want to argue RW is underpaid, go ahead, but his salary has almost no influence on FH market value. First, the whole small sample issue, and second, market value is not about rewarding past accomplishments.
 
Last edited:

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
And does not have the NBA driving up his market value.

Fair point, but I'm sure he's had offers before. Hoiberg is a great coach - he's really been a Godsend to us. However, I don't think he's going to see a raise this year unless he gets at least to the Sweet 16. Maybe a small one if it's the tournament but not Sweet 16. If it's Final 4 or championship game, he'll get a big raise. I don't think he's going anywhere for at least a handful of years no matter what. This is his dream job (his words, not mine). I don't think he's going to just quit because he didn't get a $300K raise when he's already in the top 25 highest paid coaches.

The one intangible people forget is the guy grew up bleeding ISU and said this is his dream job. Just imagine if you were in the same situation, made over $12 million in the NBA, and then became a coach. Would you bolt for another team to get paid like $400K/year more pretty quickly when you were already getting paid $1.6 million/year? I'd only be worried about this if Hoiberg did not grow up in Ames and didn't play for ISU.

I have no doubt that Hoiberg wants to coach in the NBA someday, but I think the talk is a little premature. I really do believe he wants to try and do his best to build ISU into a powerhouse before he leaves. I feel confident saying that most of us in the same situation would stay at ISU to make it prominent while still getting paid a good salary.
 
Last edited:

Dingus

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2013
3,045
1,277
113
I don't know why people keep bringing up money. It won't be a money issue that decides if Hoiberg goes to the NBA or not. It will be because the NBA is the pinnacle league in the world, and Fred's been there as a player, and whether he decides he wants to try to coach there.

I'd be surprised if it were in the next few years. But after that...
 

mustangcy

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
3,825
895
113
Bloomfield
Fred ain't going anywhere. For one, Fred isn't driven by ego as much as a lot of coaches. He see's the quality of life his family has in Ames. I'd bet his wife feels the same. The have it absolutely freaking made in Ames. As long as Fred keeps winning, he's ISU's coach. I'd bet a large sum of money on it.
 

RustShack

Chiefs Dynasty
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jan 27, 2010
13,248
7,435
113
Overland Park
Fred isn't going anywhere. He's just as big if not a bigger Iowa State fan as us. Hilton is becoming reguarded as the best venue in college basketball. He's already getting paid well, and will get paid better if someone else offers him a huge deal.

It's not going to be long before he has Iowa State reguarded as a blue blood and one of the premier basketball schools. His family is all here. His kids are big Iowa State fans, they want to play for us just like dad and Fred wants to coach his kids.

I don't know who's more lucky in this situation, Fred or us? He isn't leaving. This job is 100x easier on his heart than the NBA or even a major city would be. If he has a bad year, we won't be calling for his head.
 

marothisu

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2009
7,170
635
113
NYC
If you want to argue RW is underpaid, go ahead, but his salary has almost no influence on FH market value. First, the whole small sample issue, and second, market value is not about rewarding past accomplishments.

Yes it does. It's not the biggest factor, but it's there (and not just RW, others). Almost all decent professional jobs in this country have a salary that has a lot of factors that goes into it - one of them being what other people in a similar situation as yours makes at a variety of different companies. How the company chooses to interpret that differs. Some offer right on the average while others offer above the average.

Your past accomplishments and expertise definitely play a role into it, especially ones in the last handful of years. If you don't think this, then you don't have enough experience in the professional world in how salaries are actually figured out. I speak from experience on this. Thinking that prior success, even for coaching sports, has no influence on salary is extremely ignorant and naive IMO. Obviously there's outliers, but on average it follows this trend for many types of jobs.

The sample size may be low, but you better bet your *** that someone especially who is trying to save just a little bit of money is thinking "Well ____ and ____ have been to the Elite Eight five times each and you haven't once, so we're going to offer you less." It's common in the professional world and I have first hand experience with helping deciding these things just to save maybe $15K/year.

It's not the only factor that goes into figuring out salaries - there's many - but it is one factor of the handful. I speak from experience and I have no doubts that it's one of the factors for coaching too. The trend setters are the ones who win championships and the schools will just offer them much more. Hopefully someday we can say Hoiberg is a trend setter and it would be awesome if that was at the end of this season. I think he will get a raise this year, but not to the $3 million mark yet.
 
Last edited: