Lions for Lambs movie - warning

[herbiedoobie]

Looks like you only brought the broad-stroke brush with you again :smile:

I very much agree with your basic point of irritation with politicians that have been working towards nothing but advancing their political career since they were six. However, it is an extremely broad generalization to attribute that as a liberal ideal. You might be surprised how many of us left-wing whackos wish that we were offered a choice of candidates that are not (a) professional politicians from birth, and/or (b) lawyers (no offense to Kyle and others intended).

I suggest you reread my post. I nailed both "conservatives" and libs in it. Way too many of both ilk start in college and never actually contribute to society.

 

[cloneaholic]

If you have to watch a Hollywood-produced movie to force you to think, you have larger problems than what goes on in Washington, D.C..

The best thing you said in that post only makes sense out of context. "Nothing constructive is getting done in Washington." If one thinks that D.C. normally can have a positive effect on anything, then one needs to continue to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, etc...

And as far as cynical is concerned, this post is the most cynical post I've seen in awhile. Your assumption that partisanship is bad is incorrect. Would you prefer the bi-partisanship of the Soviet Duma instead???

Herbiedoobie,
Heck yes, I believe that partisanship is bad for our country. Do you know what the word means? Please explain to me how blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance can be good for our country. While the political partisanship has grown tremendously over the last three decades, our country's standing in this world has declined economically, politically, and morally. We are mortgaging our children's future so we can live comfortably now. It doesn't get much more immoral than that. Now you've got my blood pressure up and it's only 8:30 am!

 

[iceclone]

I suggest you reread my post. I nailed both "conservatives" and libs in it. Way too many of both ilk start in college and never actually contribute to society.

But you know that I always read your posts carefully!

As I said, I agree with your statement:

Waaaaay too many professional political hacks out there, right and left.

But I disagree with how you frame it:

Liberal propaganda IS the idea that the only way you can contribute to your country, is to become a politician. (Read as crooked, top-down, people need to be "ruled" by their "betters" oligarchy politics.)

A conservative professor would convince his student to actually WORK FOR A LIVING! And then, once he/she has some REAL FRICKIN' WORLD EXPERIENCE, perhaps they could impact politics in a constructive manner. If there is something I hate more than a hippy, it's a college-aged political activist.

[Statement I agree with.] But mostly left.

This, and in particular the opening paragraph, certainly seemed to imply that you viewed it as a liberal ideal. But I'm pleased to learn that I was wrong.

I also think that you are overestimating the role colleges play in creating career politicians. My observation is that our most esteemed career politicians have decided to never work in the real world long before they go to college. College may give them their first platform to practice their craft, but I doubt there are many real cases of professors inspiring students to become career politicians. That is probably more of a Hollywood fantasy.

 

[cmoneyr]

I suggest you reread my post. I nailed both "conservatives" and libs in it. Way too many of both ilk start in college and never actually contribute to society.

Liberal propaganda IS the idea that the only way you can contribute to your country, is to become a politician. (Read as crooked, top-down, people need to be "ruled" by their "betters" oligarchy politics.)

A conservative professor would convince his student to actually WORK FOR A LIVING! And then, once he/she has some REAL FRICKIN' WORLD EXPERIENCE, perhaps they could impact politics in a constructive manner. If there is something I hate more than a hippy, it's a college-aged political activist.

Waaaaay too many professional political hacks out there, right and left. But mostly left.

I would bet CyCash that Cruise's character does NOT espouse true conservative ideals. I would bet that he spews the straw-man crap the left-wing whackos like to SAY are conservative ideals.

Hollywood can sit and spin, as far as I'm concerned.

Where did you nail conservatives again? I see something about liberal propaganda, then you say a conservative professor would do a better job teaching his students to get involved. Then you say something about left-wing whackos and spewing straw-man crap. Oh wait, you said something about political hacks, "right and left", but then you go to clarify what you really mean by saying, "mostly left". Stick it to those conservatives herbie!

 

[frontrangeclone]

Liberal propaganda IS the idea that the only way you can contribute to your country, is to become a politician. (Read as crooked, top-down, people need to be "ruled" by their "betters" oligarchy politics.)

A conservative professor would convince his student to actually WORK FOR A LIVING! And then, once he/she has some REAL FRICKIN' WORLD EXPERIENCE, perhaps they could impact politics in a constructive manner. If there is something I hate more than a hippy, it's a college-aged political activist.

Waaaaay too many professional political hacks out there, right and left. But mostly left.

I would bet CyCash that Cruise's character does NOT espouse true conservative ideals. I would bet that he spews the straw-man crap the left-wing whackos like to SAY are conservative ideals.

Hollywood can sit and spin, as far as I'm concerned.

herbiedoobie- I don't agree with your broadbrushed painting of liberals... I don't recall professors in any of my subjects either in undergrad or grad work telling me to take a job or do something else... I chose to go to school to pave my own way in life irregardless of what an academic hack tells me. Sure we all want a job, $, stability, etc... but ask most middle class americans why they don't get into politics or even follow the news, they'll tell you they are too busy and don't have the time b/c of both parents of a household working to pay for the 2 cars, the kids and their activities, the mortgage, the credit cards, blah blah blah... so it is convenient to take our news from CNN or Fox in 30 second snippets. So what is one to do? to get experience in the Beltway most students need to get their foot in the door while still in undergrad... that's not to say many of those young budding politicians never worked foodservice, waited tables, detasseled corn, or did work with the Peace Corps for example. There are elitists on both sides of the fence so easy with the lib bashing.... how many min. wage jobs did King George have while he was growing up?

 

[Cyclonepride]

I can't believe this thing hasn't been doomed to the political thread yet. Of course, there it would be subjected to conservative domination, which is what got us banned from the front page in the first place.

I know where Herbie is coming from. The problem is that almost all of the democratic candidates lean so far left that it's basically socialism masquerading as something else. You see the exact same tendencies in our nation's schools, and in Hollywood.

 

[Angie]

"left wing whackos" is a "shoe fits" statement in my original intent. If you aren't a "whacko", why do you persist in claiming the title? I'm obviously not talking about you, am I?

The problem with "working together" with the current democratic political folks, is that they ALWAYS have a hook in that worm. Remember the GHWB "No new taxes" deal, where he agreed to new taxes in return for something else, which the dems reneged on? I'm assuming you're too young to remember it, but that bit of political chicanery started a long string of events we still suffer under.

SCHIP is a fine example: I mean, who is against medical insurance for poor children? The problem is, I GUARANTEE you it's not about medical insurance for "poor children." It's about incrementalism toward universal health care, and a huge new bureaucracy.

Lack of partisanship will result in huge gov't spending, more taxes and less freedom. Guaranteed. I LIKE having partisanship and a grid-locked federal gov't. It's the best thing they can do for us.

As far as being too "harsh", I think the single biggest shortcoming of the current college-aged generation is their complete and utter paralyzing fear of being thought to be offensive or unfair. I suggest you get over your oversensitivities and believe in something, stand for something and COMMIT yourself to something.

And I guarantee you that Lions to Lambs doesn't present a fair position of conservatism. And the fact that people who portray themselves as "liberal" say it does is just baloney.

Wow - as someone who doesn't know anything about me, anyone suggesting I get over my "oversensitivities" would appear pretty condescending. I'm sure you're not taking that tactic, but I just wouldn't want to misunderstand you (I'm also 28 - no longer college age). You started off your initial post talking about "liberal propaganda", and then talked about "left-wing whackos" [sic], thereby giving the impression of a correlation. I was simply trying to point out that using such sweeping generalizations would be like me using the phrase "uneducated good ol' boys" - I don't use that phrase because I think that stereotype is a vast exception of conservatives, rather than the rule. I fully agree that there are liberals who give the rest of us a bad name, and think that either side calling any name is being divisive just to be divisive.

DEFINITION OF PARTISANSHIP. "especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance." Please see my original post - I am not calling for the eradication of the multi-party system, I am rather suggesting that blind adherence itself to one party or the other is short-sighted and not constructive. I believe that people should examine each issue and decide on their own what their stance is, rather than blindly following party lines. I know that most of my beliefs DO fall in with the left, but there are issues for which I have different beliefs (I believe in welfare education and reform, for example). This is the "partisanship" of which I spoke. Instead, I have committed to thinking for myself. I think the "guarantee" you gave if we had a single-party system is also a little drastic - I could also say that we would fall into an oligarchy under which the rights of the individual would be trampled if we fell under a single conservative party, but I don't think that's honestly the case.

As for the final part about the movie "Lions for Lambs" - I know I never said anything was portrayed as "fair" in that movie, as I mentioned that I'd never watched it.

With the last several posts (including mine), I think we've earned this thread a spot in the political forum, so I'm moving the thread. Sorry for my part in that, cloneaholic. I know that wasn't your intention with your original post.

 

[iceclone]

I can't believe this thing hasn't been doomed to the political thread yet. Of course, there it would be subjected to conservative domination

It is officially doomed! I enjoyed the brief interjection of some alternative viewpoints into a political thread, but let the conservative domination now commence.

 

[Cyclonepride]

It is officially doomed! I enjoyed the brief interjection of some alternative viewpoints into a political thread, but let the conservative domination now commence.

You know, I actually agree with you. It's not much of a debate with a bunch of people talking who basically agree. I may rail against liberals from time to time, or all the time:wink:, but the debates are always entertaining, and sometimes I get to see something from a different angle.

 

[Angie]

Hopefully it doesn't become that - it just seemed practical to move it. I hope that was okay.

 

[iceclone]

No problem Angie. This is certainly the appropriate forum. I was just lamenting that there aren't more posters that participate in this forum, rather than questioning your decision to move the thread.

 

[Cyclonepride]

No problem Angie. This is certainly the appropriate forum. I was just lamenting that there aren't more posters that participate in this forum, rather than questioning your decision to move the thread.

I'll second that. This is the appropriate place for that discussion, but I agree that it's sad that the political forum has been marginalized to a certain extent. There used to be spirited discussions with a larger diversity of opinion.