Level the playing field in HS athletics

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mb7299, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. baagoe

    baagoe Well-Known Member

    Mar 27, 2015
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    Whenever I see a thread about something I don’t care about I make sure to open it and post about how I don’t care about it
     
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  2. NWICY

    NWICY Well-Known Member

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    I would actually say it's common for good athletic programs to recruit kids and their families into the school district,it's amazing how often an athletic gifted kid's parent get an offer in a school for a job opening. Now that budgets are tighter it is happening less but back in the 80's it was pretty common. Another thing I have seen some of is a talented kid moving in with an AAU teammates family so they can all play on the same HS team.
     
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  3. Clonefan32

    Clonefan32 Well-Known Member

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    As a native of Indianola, I can tell you both sides. Since Indianola has dropped to the Litte Hawkeye I've noticed a definite change in attitude towards sports. They are fielding better teams and better athletes. It's fun for kids again. We had no business playing against the Ankeny, Dowling, Valley's of the word with about 1/2 of the enrollment and a 1/4th of the budget. No one went to games, and there as never any excitement around the programs. No one wants to go out and get their ***** kicked every night.

    Now for some reason I really can't understand, they still "play up" come state tournament time. So they spend the majority of their year playing 3A competition, only to go up against 4A teams for the tournament. That's logic I can't understand.
     
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  4. theshadow

    theshadow Well-Known Member

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    By enrollment, Indianola is still in the top 40. That makes them a 4A school for pretty much every sport. They've just moved to a conference that has a bunch of 3A schools. So, they're not playing "up" in the postseason as much as they're playing "down" in the regular season.
     
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  5. knowlesjam

    knowlesjam Well-Known Member

    Oct 21, 2012
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    You were correct...my Illinois experience was just a bit dated with respect to the church and private schools...like you said, Illinois now uses the multiplier rule...1.65 times the schools enrollment for the "non-boundary" schools. They also use a success rule where a school can get bumped up a level if they get two or more state championships within a 4 year period. The school can be moved back down to their normal classification if they don't have success at the higher level (within 2 years). While not perfect, at least they are trying to bring some standardization to the process. There is a waiver process if a school feels that a different outcome is needed.

    Nebraska does allow schools to petition on moving up or down, but it is far from an automatic yes...waivers are pretty difficult to obtain.
     
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  6. harimad

    harimad Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2016
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    I think the multiplier is great. Here's some information on how Illinois does it.

    https://www.ihsa.org/Schools/EnrollmentsClassifications/AlphabeticalEnrollments.aspx
     
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  7. Clonefan32

    Clonefan32 Well-Known Member

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    The multiplier or "relegation" are great ideas. Basing classes solely on enrollment is a terrible indicator of competitiveness. Look at what teams are doing relative to their competition and if they can't keep up, move them where they belong and give a different school a chance.
     
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  8. Clonefan32

    Clonefan32 Well-Known Member

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    I played 4A basketball and we had some teams that were pretty dang good. I remember during Winter Break against a few good 3A teams and absolutely go our ***** kicked. The gap between a good 3A and good 4A team is pretty negligible in everything but football.
     
  9. BCClone

    BCClone Well-Known Member

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    Looking outside of the Large schools, many times the level of competition a team plays can make a huge difference come play off time. The HS conference my kids are in used to range from 1a to 3a for basketball. Seemed the 3a schools would win the conference but would get blown up in the tourney. There would routinely be a 1a school that would finish in that 2-4 range that would make state and a few times win several games there. They were used to harder competition from the bigger schools in their conference. Conferences are generally set up of, originally, similar sized schools who were generally close to each other. Will the state need to determine conferences or just go to a football district type thing for everything if we want the complete leveling?
     
  10. SEIOWA CLONE

    SEIOWA CLONE Active Member

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    Hell 10 years ago Gilbert was the runner up, lost to Davis Co. in the championship game and the Gilbert pitcher had pitched every inning, except the first inning of the championship game. The way the tournament laid out for 2A that year, it worked out. DC won the game 1 to 0, the only run was given up by the other Gilbert starter.
     
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  11. BillBrasky4Cy

    BillBrasky4Cy Well-Known Member

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    Valley had 75 kids try out for the FRESHMAN baseball team this year!
     
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  12. farminclone

    farminclone Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with this. I went to a 3A school that regularly played 4A schools in everything besides football and we were very competitive with them. Granted, we weren't playing the DSM metro schools, but Mason City, Cedar Falls, Waterloo Schools, Dubuque Schools, Cedar Rapids, etc. In football we can (and do) compete with the lower end 4A schools but Cedar Falls and the rest of the big boys would kill us.
     
  13. farminclone

    farminclone Well-Known Member

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    Outside of football, you can be in any conference that you want to be in, regardless of enrollment and class. When you get to playoffs the classes are determined by enrollment.

    It's pretty common in the rural parts of the state to have 2 classes represented in one conference, and sometimes 3 classes even in extreme cases.

    Dubuque Wahlert and CR Xavier would be examples of the opposite scenario of Indianola - they play in the MVC (pretty much all 4A schools) during regular season, but based on enrollment are 3A for playoffs/state.
     
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  14. BillBrasky4Cy

    BillBrasky4Cy Well-Known Member

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    Dowling has other advantages too that haven't been discussed. They are supported by the entire Des Moines Metro catholic network. For example, there is a catholic youth football league that is basically a feeder system straight to Dowling. Trust me, these coaches are evaluating kids at a young age and kids are absolutely being pushed to Dowling and tuition exceptions are being made to get them there.
     
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  15. SEIOWA CLONE

    SEIOWA CLONE Active Member

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    Valley should have been split into two separate high schools 20 years ago, but the district refuses to do it. They built a building just for their freshman what 10 years ago?

    Valley admitted in the Register they were not splitting the district because they were worried how a split would affect their extra curricular activities. Ankeny split, Waukee is building a second high school, IC built a 3rd HS last year. Time to split Valley, but they struggle now beating Dowling.
     
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  16. SEIOWA CLONE

    SEIOWA CLONE Active Member

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    Correct and if you add Davenport Assumption and SC East, all four would be playing in 4A come tournament time with a multiplier like Illinois uses.
     
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  17. theshadow

    theshadow Well-Known Member

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    Splits in the urban communities will keep bumping borderline schools down a class.

    Waukee will have two top-30 enrollments.
    Iowa City Liberty is already into the top 40.
    If Ankeny had 3 high schools (rumored to be on the way), they'd each be the size of Fort Dodge already.
    Valley could split and still have a pair of top-25 numbers.
     
  18. BillBrasky4Cy

    BillBrasky4Cy Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2013
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    Valley is never going to split and there really isn't any reason to. In 10-20 years the Ankney and Waukee Schools will be on par with Valley as far as enrollment goes. With the Valley school district being land locked I would actually argue that enrollment will start to slide some and it looks like the WDM schools are anticipating the same thing. In a few years the Freshamn will bee back into the high school and Southwoods is going to be re purposed into a trade type school.
     
  19. mustangcy

    mustangcy Well-Known Member

    Apr 11, 2006
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    I like how Tennessee does it...no private schools allowed against public schools. It's so frustrating year after year to watch the State tournaments in most sports and see almost all classes ruled by private catholic schools. I'd imagine those catholic schools are greasing the wheels at the offices in Boone so it'll never happen. I would bet heavy on nothing ever changing.
     
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  20. riceville98

    riceville98 Well-Known Member
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    if I had the dumb button This post would get one
     
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