Led Zeppelin

Sigmapolis

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Yeah. I just wasn’t aware of Led Zeppelin’s extent before and how blatant, and not just blues artists.

Maybe there is something I am not aware of, but I would also give credit to The Rolling Stones in this regard, who gave credit and visited Chess Records in Chicago on their first U.S. visit, I believe, and even made some recordings there. Chess is where local blues artists like Willie Dixon, Muddy Waters, and Howling Wolf and others recorded, including Chuck Berry (with Dixon on the standup bass).

In one interview I saw, Dixon said Jagger and Richards asked in that Chicago visit if he remembered them from a show of his in London. Dixon said that they used to let the ‘kids’ in the back door for free.

He chuckled and said of course he didn't remember them, they were so much younger and their hair much shorter then.

You know you have a problem when you have a Wikipedia page devoted to the songs you stole from other artists or otherwise did not give proper credit --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Led_Zeppelin_songs_written_or_inspired_by_others

Everybody has *some* instances of that... even the mighty Beatles...


After the horn intro, you basically have "I Feel Fine." They even borrowed the little calypso beat in the background, not only the form of the guitar riff.

Led Zep has more copyright violations than practically any band out there. Great group, but copied from others repeatedly. I’d have a hard time saying what was the best ever, but the stones and Beatles have to be up there. I’m a Deep Purple fan and it’s hard to match their skills. Love Kansas, Chicago, Grand Funk...the list goes on.

The Mark I version of Deep Purple with Rod Evans on vocals -- the psychedelic pop on their first album and then the prog influences of their second and third before they went straight hard rock -- are still underrated. "Hush" is an all-time banger, and John Lennon thought their version of "Help!" was one of the best Beatles covers of all time.

Even their classic Mark II stuff needs more appreciation. I would rather listen to Blackmore than Page, Gillan than Plant, and Jon Lord was on his own level with prog keyboardists like Keith Emerson beyond anything in LZ, though Led Zeppelin's rhythm section was devastating early on before the drug use reduced their effectiveness greatly.

I have always found it funny how Led Zeppelin was at their best early on when they were borrowing heavily from their betters, on Houses of the Holy (their one truly great *and* truly original album), but after that, they kind of fell apart as a force.

Still stand by my previous statement... Deep Purple > Led Zeppelin.

But even they had their "lifts" from time to time --


To quote Ritchie Blackmore --
"After you've learned your second chord, get a really good lawyer."

Blacks created early rock music whites made all the money.

There is a lot of truth in that, but (mostly White) folk and country artists and (mostly White) composers and performers of Tin Pan Alley pop had much to do with the development of what we now call rock, too. That was what made popular music from the mid-1950s through the "classic" era so interesting in merging so many influences into so many fascinating and novel forms, but you are right is hard to understate the influence Black blues artists and especially guitarists had on the genre, particularly in the 60s and 70s.
 
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Clone83

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I like Deep Purple a lot, and many other groups (and songs). But I would probably rank the Beatles and The Rolling Stones as the top two, in that order, and The Beach Boys maybe third.

Besides Led Zeppelin, there are many other groups I like, like The Who, the Doors, the Kinks, CCR, Jefferson Airplane, the Yardbirds (which morphed into Led Zeppelin), and so on, and many many much more recent — that I hear some, but that many others here are much more knowledgeable of.

I haven’t listened to a lot of Beatles though for a very long time.

Growing up, their songs were usually on AM stations, like 2 times an hour or so, even years after they had broken up. No one else got close to that amount of air time. They were that popular. So in part, as to not listening to them for a long time, is probably familiarity and burnout, as well as the much wider availability of everything else with changes in technology. I listened to a lot of AM radio doing farm work, for years, which included local Omaha DJ Jimmy O’Neill, who was previously the top Los Angeles DJ and then the host of the TV show Shindig. So he knew a lot about all of these groups, and more. I also liked a lot of folk and MoTown, which were also popular then.

It is easy to think of many other great songs from that time period that got air time.
 

NENick

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Cashmier? I didn't think Zeppelin had any songs that soft.

Love Kashmir!

Sing Remains the Same was the greatest rock movie of all time. (Well, I was high a lot back then.)

But Pink Floyd, The Who, were better.

Did somebody disparage Foo Fighters? I believe the greatest current real rock & roll band. Carrying on the tradition.
 

Doc

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Love Kashmir!

Sing Remains the Same was the greatest rock movie of all time. (Well, I was high a lot back then.)

But Pink Floyd, The Who, were better.

Did somebody disparage Foo Fighters? I believe the greatest current real rock & roll band. Carrying on the tradition.

Yeah, that was me. The Foo Fighters suck. They have less lyrical diversity than Nickelback.
 

SCyclone

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Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon was the first concept album, and set the standard (which BTW has yet to be matched) for those that followed.

Like Brian Wilson - who I consider to be a musical genius - Roger Waters used many non-standard instruments and sounds to create songs that were unique and groundbreaking.

I think the thing that sets them apart for me is that their albums weren't all of a sort, and each one contains something new and interesting. After The Wall, Roger decided he wanted to make political statements with his music, and Gilmour, Mason, and Wright chose to go another way. More's the pity.

I will say that after watching Classic Albums on AXS channel about the making of Machine Head, I have an elevated appreciation for Deep Purple's talent. If you get a chance, watch that program. Some good stuff.
 

ruxCYtable

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Whether you like to listen to them or not, Led Zep is unquestionably one of the -- if not THE -- most talented musically across the board.
 

Sigmapolis

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Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon was the first concept album, and set the standard (which BTW has yet to be matched) for those that followed.

Like Brian Wilson - who I consider to be a musical genius - Roger Waters used many non-standard instruments and sounds to create songs that were unique and groundbreaking.

I think the thing that sets them apart for me is that their albums weren't all of a sort, and each one contains something new and interesting. After The Wall, Roger decided he wanted to make political statements with his music, and Gilmour, Mason, and Wright chose to go another way. More's the pity.

I will say that after watching Classic Albums on AXS channel about the making of Machine Head, I have an elevated appreciation for Deep Purple's talent. If you get a chance, watch that program. Some good stuff.

How would, say, Sgt. Pepper's (a "band within the band" concept) or Tommy (which has, or at least tries to have, an overarching plot between songs) not be years before The Dark Side of the Moon? Even Dark Side's concept is pretty thin... sure, the songs are very much lyrically and thematically similar, but there is no real gimmick connecting them or ongoing story or plot between them to tie them all together in a direct way.

Not trying to talk down that album... it is obviously impeccable... I am just not sure it is really a "concept" album any more than a few examples that came before it.

Whether you like to listen to them or not, Led Zep is unquestionably one of the -- if not THE -- most talented musically across the board.

This is probably hyperbolic.

What do you mean by "most talented musically?"

As songwriters? They sure borrowed a lot for that to be the case.

As instrumentalists? You have a case there between Page/Jones/Bonham, definitely, but plenty of other bands and power trios (e.g., Cream with Clapton/Bruce/Baker or the Who with Townshend/Entwistle/Moon) have a case, too.

That is even before you account for many of the prog bands, where virtuosity on an instrument was basically the point of the band and/or more modern groups with perhaps more stylistic variation than the examples above.
 

SCyclone

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How would, say, Sgt. Pepper's (a "band within the band" concept) or Tommy (which has, or at least tries to have, an overarching plot between songs) not be years before The Dark Side of the Moon? Even Dark Side's concept is pretty thin... sure, the songs are very much lyrically and thematically similar, but there is no real gimmick connecting them or ongoing story or plot between them to tie them all together in a direct way.

Not trying to talk down that album... it is obviously impeccable... I am just not sure it is really a "concept" album any more than a few examples that came before it.



This is probably hyperbolic.

What do you mean by "most talented musically?"

As songwriters? They sure borrowed a lot for that to be the case.

As instrumentalists? You have a case there between Page/Jones/Bonham, definitely, but plenty of other bands and power trios (e.g., Cream with Clapton/Bruce/Baker or the Who with Townshend/Entwistle/Moon) have a case, too.

That is even before you account for many of the prog bands, where virtuosity on an instrument was basically the point of the band and/or more modern groups with perhaps more stylistic variation than the examples above.

Of course the over-arching concept of Dark Side is mental illness, and to a lesser degree the drudgery and sameness of everyday life. Most of this can be credited to the issues Syd Barrett suffered from, Waters has said this was his way of keeping Syd's spirit in the band, and paying homage to him as well.

Your point is well taken about Sgt Pepper (which was itself a response to Wilson's Pet Sounds), but Dark Side flows together from beginning to end - with the possible exception of the gap between the two sides of the album - and, IMHO, remains the finest album creation of the 70s.
 

Drew0311

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I would pay $1,000 to be at this concert. They were so incredible in concert. When I saw them at Jack Trice you could just smoke pot and the cops would not even say anything. There were just way to many people smoking. It was an incredible show. I was so freakin high. haha


 
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Sigmapolis

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Of course the over-arching concept of Dark Side is mental illness, and to a lesser degree the drudgery and sameness of everyday life. Most of this can be credited to the issues Syd Barrett suffered from, Waters has said this was his way of keeping Syd's spirit in the band, and paying homage to him as well.

Your point is well taken about Sgt Pepper (which was itself a response to Wilson's Pet Sounds), but Dark Side flows together from beginning to end - with the possible exception of the gap between the two sides of the album - and, IMHO, remains the finest album creation of the 70s.

Oh, I do not deny that The Dark Side of the Moon is a towering achievement and coherent from song-to-song as a sequence in the way you describe.

Of course it is. It is an incredible album.

:)

I just do not think it was the *first* concept album. Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, Tommy, and a few other rock albums have a case (as well as some earlier country, folk, and jazz records, depending on what qualifies). Pet Sounds has at least the same level of sonic and thematic continuity between songs as Dark Side.

Fun story about Dark Side I will relate --

A friend of mine used to live in Denver. He had a few "substances" there, and his dog managed to open a cabinet and gorge himself on all the edibles. The dog was tripping balls. He was like a bag of rubber bands and foaming from the mouth. You would pick him up and set him down, and his legs would splay out in every direction with no muscle tone. His little puppy eyes were in another galaxy contemplating the nature of reality.

He took him to the vet, thinking something might be seriously wrong with the dog. The vet said, "Don't worry, this happens all the time. He'll be fine. Just take him home, find a dark and quiet room, and put on The Dark Side of the Moon."
 
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cytor

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How would, say, Sgt. Pepper's (a "band within the band" concept) or Tommy (which has, or at least tries to have, an overarching plot between songs) not be years before The Dark Side of the Moon? Even Dark Side's concept is pretty thin... sure, the songs are very much lyrically and thematically similar, but there is no real gimmick connecting them or ongoing story or plot between them to tie them all together in a direct way.

Not trying to talk down that album... it is obviously impeccable... I am just not sure it is really a "concept" album any more than a few examples that came before it.



This is probably hyperbolic.

What do you mean by "most talented musically?"

As songwriters? They sure borrowed a lot for that to be the case.

As instrumentalists? You have a case there between Page/Jones/Bonham, definitely, but plenty of other bands and power trios (e.g., Cream with Clapton/Bruce/Baker or the Who with Townshend/Entwistle/Moon) have a case, too.

That is even before you account for many of the prog bands, where virtuosity on an instrument was basically the point of the band and/or more modern groups with perhaps more stylistic variation than the examples above.

Prog rockers can definitely bring the musicianship to rival or possibly exceed LZ. Yes, Rush, Genesis, King Crimson, Dream Theater....
 

cytor

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I'm surprised nobody has mentions one of the all time greats... AC/DC.

Want a great American band? Van Halen
 

weR138

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NOT Led Zeppelin 4...

SIAP but this comes up in the director's cut commentary.

As you probably know, Cameron Crow (Fast Times author) is tight with LZ and did indeed want to have LZ 4 playing in the car during that scene. However, there was some delay (studio / record company snafu) or error in getting it...but they could get PG.

Anyway, to me and most LZ fans it makes total sense that it's Kashmir since Mark keeps f^cking up the entire date and the wrong album is just another f&ck-up...

I'm late to the party so again, SIAP.
 

weR138

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Again, late to the party but posit this notion I've seen on another fan site:

Of the four member of the band, Jimmy Page is the least talented at his instrument.

It's crazy to think about but it's probably true!

Bonham - greatest rock drummer ever?
Plant - greatest rock singer ever?
Jones - musical polymath, plays every instrument and ALSO arguably greatest rock bassist.

It's nuts...
 

Drew0311

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I'm surprised nobody has mentions one of the all time greats... AC/DC.

Want a great American band? Van Halen


AC/DC is a great band. Just soooo over played on KGGO and other stations it's almost hard to listen to. I think they are great but immediately change the channel when they come on.

Van Halen is one of my favorites also. It's amazing them and AC/DC both changed singers and had major if not more success with the new singer.
 

cytor

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AC/DC is a great band. Just soooo over played on KGGO and other stations it's almost hard to listen to. I think they are great but immediately change the channel when they come on.

Van Halen is one of my favorites also. It's amazing them and AC/DC both changed singers and had major if not more success with the new singer.

Not to mention they were pretty damn good with their 1st singers!
 

Sigmapolis

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SIAP but this comes up in the director's cut commentary.

As you probably know, Cameron Crow (Fast Times author) is tight with LZ and did indeed want to have LZ 4 playing in the car during that scene. However, there was some delay (studio / record company snafu) or error in getting it...but they could get PG.

Anyway, to me and most LZ fans it makes total sense that it's Kashmir since Mark keeps f^cking up the entire date and the wrong album is just another f&ck-up...

I'm late to the party so again, SIAP.

I played "Kashmir" for my wife once.

"What nonsense is this? Can't we just listen to Disney songs or Latin dance pop?"

Again, late to the party but posit this notion I've seen on another fan site:

Of the four member of the band, Jimmy Page is the least talented at his instrument.

It's crazy to think about but it's probably true!

Bonham - greatest rock drummer ever?
Plant - greatest rock singer ever?
Jones - musical polymath, plays every instrument and ALSO arguably greatest rock bassist.

It's nuts...

All three were excellent instrumentalists, no doubt.

But unquestionably the best at each...?
 

weR138

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I played "Kashmir" for my wife once.

"What nonsense is this? Can't we just listen to Disney songs or Latin dance pop?"



All three were excellent instrumentalists, no doubt.

But unquestionably the best at each...?

No, it's just a thought experiment....but, consider Page's "competition"; Beck, Townsend, Clapton, HENDRIX, etc.

He's farther from "greatest" guitarist than Bonham or Plant are from greatest drummer / singer. I think a poll of rock journalist would agree (would love to see one).

JPJ is the wildcard. His list of rivals is pretty short at bass. Now throw in his mandolin / melotron / guitar / (name the instrument) prowess...he's also a force.

There's a legit argument that Page is least talented which speaks to the unreal talent in that band. Off the charts.
 

Drew0311

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No, it's just a thought experiment....but, consider Page's "competition"; Beck, Townsend, Clapton, HENDRIX, etc.

He's farther from "greatest" guitarist than Bonham or Plant are from greatest drummer / singer. I think a poll of rock journalist would agree (would love to see one).

JPJ is the wildcard. His list of rivals is pretty short at bass. Now throw in his mandolin / melotron / guitar / (name the instrument) prowess...he's also a force.

There's a legit argument that Page is least talented which speaks to the unreal talent in that band. Off the charts.

clapton swears Prince is the greatest guitar player ever.
 

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