Lack of a true Center

[HandSanitizer]

Respectively disagree about White.
He Runs and finishes about as good as any 6-9 guy in the country.
He can shoot the 3.
He alters shots and gets rebounds.

Keep in mind if he played for us he would be averaging 10 more mins a game also (which means his stats would be better)

Not saying I want White, but I think we have to have someone talented over 6-7 is all I am saying. I know McKay is 6-8, but he is unproven at this point.

I am disappointed Endozie and Gibson have not been players for us this year. Thats a couple big dudes. Not questioning just frustrated right now.

 

[rholtgraves]

It's not lack of a center that is hurting the team it's Niang's shot which he seems to have lost. Teams don't have to come out and guard him with the way he is shooting from the outside this year. It also hurts when they seemed to get frustrated with shots not falling and then weren't running the offense to get good shots.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

I know that ISU got the best of Baylor, and maybe that went to their heads somewhat, but in the last two games ISU's lack of size has been a problem. How many tip outs did Kansas have last night that lead to second chance points because ISU couldn't get past their bigs? Hopefully this is where McKay will help out next year.

There is also another big at McKay's former CC that is mobile and athletic.

Here is another to consider. Akolda Manyang
Indian Hills Community College Athletics - 2013-14 Men's Basketball Roster

I went to an Indian Hills game this past Saturday and was surprised by Manyang's athleticism and ability to rebound and score. He also has some meat on his bones compared to someone like Baylor's Austin. He can also move unlike Woodberry at Iowa.

He should be looked at.

Disagree. Did OU have a true center?

We could use more length, but we do not need a true center. As Goldfinger mentioned last week, the next step in terms of the roster is hitting on the Brackins type recruits we have been after. Can you imagine a Brackins next to Georges (or Ejim)? McKay and Nadar will add length next season, but I do have my concerns on if we put offensive performance too much ahead of rebounding and defense.

I think the jucos we are going after in 2015 indicate it is a priority.

 

[LutherBlue]

Can we win without one? Yes.
Would it be great to have one? Yes. Niang missing shots doesn't have anything to do with defense (being forced to double absolutely every time the ball goes inside) and getting outrebounded. Lack of size is a limiting factor for this team.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Embid is a freak. In most cases, we take advantage of the average center with our mismatches. In this case, the guy could defend like a beast down low as well as out high. That was really disruptive of what we were trying to do, and I'm not sure we can fix that other than by getting a freak for ourselves.

 

[Goldfinger]

Embid is a freak. In most cases, we take advantage of the average center with our mismatches. In this case, the guy could defend like a beast down low as well as out high. That was really disruptive of what we were trying to do, and I'm not sure we can fix that other than by getting a freak for ourselves.

Yes I blame Fred, all he has to do is recruit another Embiid, its that easy

 

[HandSanitizer]

So we all agree we don't need a true center. More height and shooting our average % makes us good.
I think we are all just frustrated. Truth is we make 8 - 3 pointers and we win.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Yes I blame Fred, all he has to do is recruit another Embiid, its that easy

Or three of them. I want three.

 

[isutrevman]

I know that ISU got the best of Baylor, and maybe that went to their heads somewhat, but in the last two games ISU's lack of size has been a problem. How many tip outs did Kansas have last night that lead to second chance points because ISU couldn't get past their bigs? Hopefully this is where McKay will help out next year.

There is also another big at McKay's former CC that is mobile and athletic.

Here is another to consider. Akolda Manyang
Indian Hills Community College Athletics - 2013-14 Men's Basketball Roster

I went to an Indian Hills game this past Saturday and was surprised by Manyang's athleticism and ability to rebound and score. He also has some meat on his bones compared to someone like Baylor's Austin. He can also move unlike Woodberry at Iowa.

He should be looked at.

I don't know about him in particular, but I know we are (and will for for the foreseable future) looking at Indian Hills players. I believe we had a group of them visit earlier this season. Not sure who all came though.

 

[CyCy]

Fred had a big guy in Jordan Railey. Never used him much, didn't fit Fred's system.

 

[Wesley]

There's much to this comment right here. I was absolutely screaming at the TV when our guys (Ejim over and over) were standing with a pained look on their face because a foul wasn't called only to have the KU players move to the basket for 2 immediate points. It was stupid. Get the **** up and play ball and quit whining about the ****ing no calls!

We do this too often. We need to play. We need to cook our own meal.

 

[algonacy]

In Fred I trust....

When I get to coach the team (in my head I realize) I would like to have a 7' body in the center for teams like Kansas. If for no other reason than to get long wing-span players like Embiid off Niang. Somebody mentioned on another thread that people have "figured out" Niang and that is maybe not a correct statement to make but in the real world it is a perfect statement. A 7'-1" player like Embiid never has to jump against Niang. The key for someone like that is to let Niang shoot, then "jump" or swat the ball with those freakishly long arms of his. People are learning to stay on the ground against Niang. It's not rocket-science. I still have confidence in Georges ability to get the ball off against taller players (who aren't freak lottery picks). I don't have any question about his ability to get the shot off most of the time. However I do think he could do a better job at picking those times.

My issue right now is that he is making BAD outside shots. I was never a "shooter" so I don't really understand the concept of trying to shoot through a slump. Man, if I'm playing one of the best teams in the country and I'm in a shooting slump, you know what I would do? I wouldn't shoot 9 three pointers, that simple. I would only shoot if wide open and had a favorable shot clock setup.

I love Georges game, but I hope he gets this worked out soon.

Go Clones!

 

[Seedman]

I'd say lack of effort and passion did us in more than anything in the rebounding game. Size would have helped, but that wasn't the end all. Keep in mind our rebounding was okay last season with the same two starting posts.

We had almost no time to rest, recover and prepare after coming off a tough loss at Oklahoma. We needed to have another big who could step up and give Georges some rest. It seemed like he was exhausted. At the highest level of the sport, God given talent OR warrior like work ethic alone won’t get you where you want to go. To be recognized as one of the league’s most highly regarded players, you are going to need both. I had hoped that Doc could light a fire under Percy this year. In my opinion, Percy has the God given talent. Maybe I am wrong, but I just don’t see a burning will to win or warrior like work ethic there. His team needs him as does the Cyclone Nation. So, I am hopeful he will answer the call.

DeAndre was hurt and played like an absolute warrior as did Dustin! You could not have ask for a greater effort from either one of them. Monte and Melvin also played a good game. As it relates to all those missed 3s, I do hope we will be able to identify someone with a hotter hand in practice or early in the game rather than continually forcing shots if a player is in a slump. Regardless of the talent level, any player in the country can go through a slump. Lack of depth, inability to hit the 3 and free throws seemed to hurt us again tonight.

Just take one look at all the Kansas turn overs and you know our guys were fighting their *** off. Let’s give the team a little time to rest, review a little game film and bring it at Texas!

 

[Amesboy]

We did struggle with frosh Joel Embiid last night who was 7/8 and ended with 28. He was pretty mobile and had some nice moves and also had 9 boards. We did miss allot of shots last night and having a legit center that can score could be a better % in games when we aren't hitting shots.

 

[mikem]

Can we win without one? Yes.
Would it be great to have one? Yes. Niang missing shots doesn't have anything to do with defense (being forced to double absolutely every time the ball goes inside) and getting outrebounded. Lack of size is a limiting factor for this team.

But Georges makiing shots draws the defense out to him as well opening up more in the lane for penetration, and slashes to the basket, or kick outs for open 3's.

The fact that he isn't knocking down the 3 at even a remotely decent percentage allows the other bigs to clog the lane, and that really effects an offense that is based upon movement, and mismatches.

He has to be an effective shooter to make the rest of his game work, as well as try to force the opponent to adjust to us.

 

[LutherBlue]

But Georges makiing shots draws the defense out to him as well opening up more in the lane for penetration, and slashes to the basket, or kick outs for open 3's.

The fact that he isn't knocking down the 3 at even a remotely decent percentage allows the other bigs to clog the lane, and that really effects an offense that is based upon movement, and mismatches.

He has to be an effective shooter to make the rest of his game work, as well as try to force the opponent to adjust to us.

I don't disagree with that, but I'm not sure what it has to do with my post. The primary benefit of having a functioning big man is on defense and the defensive boards, imo.

 

[Peter]

If we hit threes last night, everyone would be talking about how great it is that we don't have a bunch of cement footed slugs like Kansas. We didn't, and it makes Self look like a genius and Fred look the fool. Normally we run a big team like Kansas off the court. I would still rather have a fast versatile team than a clumsy mugger team.

 

[DBQR4CY]

I've read all the posts on this thread and there's a lot of what if's and well if we would have just made a couple more 3's we win. What if ISU got more rebounds and Kansas didn't get nearly as many second chance points? What if Kansas had better ball security and turned the ball over fewer times or ISU committed more fouls?

I'm not talking about CFH going out and always making sure that 2 or 3 seven footers are on the roster, but perhaps searching to have 1 or 2 on the roster from the JuCo ranks that have played and are more developed than a freshman. If CFH can always get a PG or SG to transfer to ISU then maybe that possible for a Center as well.

This also comes to another point that ISU didn't seem to adjust its D in the second half and just did more of the same from the first half. It was collapse on the ball when it goes outside and leave the outside open or just two quick passes to the open guy. CFH is one of the best in college, but there is still room to grow and that will come with experience. He needs to work on making game time adjustments and not just on mismatches. Otherwise sooner rather than later, the other conference coaches will figure out how to better deal with ISU. After 4 year CFH has done an unbelievable job at ISU, but that doesn't mean he can't be questioned from time to time.

 

[Dryburn]

I don't know if ISU needs a "true" center or not. Most teams today don't have one, and many play with 3 guards and only 2 on the front line. Of course many of those play a tall "guard" as a wing, a Clyburn type player.

Last night was something of an anomaly I think in terms of rebounds. For one thing....ISU missed a lot of shots, a lot more than KU did. That right there was going to give KU a lot more chances on defensive rebounds. KU out-rebounded ISU by 17, yet ISU won the offensive rebounds by 1. ISU missed 17 more shots than KU did. So, even though there was a huge discrepancy last night, that is not what lead to the loss. Bad shooting by ISU did.

I looked something up on the Big 12 teams, and was not sure where to put it, but this thread seems as good of a place as any. Here are the current starting "frontcourts" of the Big 12 teams. If only 2 players are shown, that means the team uses a 3 guard/2 front line lineup. Draw your own conclusions, but you can see where ISU stands, and what is coming up.

School	Player	Height	Weight
Baylor	Austin	7 1	225
	Jefferson	6 9	220
	O'Neale	6 6	220
ISU	Hogue	6 6	215
	Ejim	6 6	220
	Niang	6 7	240
Kansas	Embiid	7 0	250
	Wiggins	6 8	200
	Ellis	6 8	225
Kansas State	Gipson	6 7	265
	Southwell	6 7	215
	Iwundu	6 7	195
Oklahoma	Spangler	6 8	232
	Clark	6 7	211
Oklahoma State	Nash	6 7	235
	Williams	6 5	210
	Murphy	6 8	220
TCU	Parrish	6 6	185
	Shepard	6 10	225
	Fields	6 9	220
Texas	Ridley	6 9	285
	Holmes	6 8	240
Texas Tech	Crockett	6 7	210
	Tolbert	6 7	225
West Virginia	Williams	6 9	225
	Noreen	6 10	250

 

[CycloneVet]

Do some of honestly think there are a lot of Joel Embiid's in this world. Just last week we cut Baylor to pieces WITH THEIR 2 7 FOOTERS. The same 7 footers that ate Iowa's lunch last march. Nobody was griping about our lack of size when we shut down both of them. Some of you people also act like it is easy to sign these kids that play like Embiid. There is never a day that I regret Adam Woodbury not being a Cyclone fan growing up and wanting to play in Ames. Embiid is a special player that tends to go to placed like KU/Kentucky North Carolina and maybe Duke, they don't come to ISU.

KU played sloppy the entire game, we couldn't make them pay for it at the line and with the 3 ball. Bill Self is likely feeling somewhat relieved they escaped with the win last night. I didn't disagree with any of our 3 point attempts last night, they were good looks that didn't go down.

Re-watch the game and specifically watch what was happening underneath the basket, it was an absolute war under there. Our guys were fighting their ***** off. Was there some ******** about getting hammered on down there, and did it lead to points for KU, yes, but there weren't too any instances.

Some of you on this board would have applauded Fred's genius if we would have hit outside shots last night, when in fact you don't know **** about gameplans.