KSTATE vs KBOO

[rholtgraves]

Top 25ish = "High ranked recruit"
26ish-100 = "Low ranked recruit"
101+ = "Unranked recruit"

Ummm no

 

[ca4cy]

Frank went to a military school after high school because the only offer he had was from Towson State. The ONLY reason he wasmoved into the Top 100 was because he committed to Kansas.

Signing with a big name school always results in low or unranked guys getting a big bump in the final rankings. Standard procedure.

The problem is that you seem to want to say these guys were basically glorified walkons while the facts simply don't support that argument. Mason and Graham were 4*, top 75 (one in the 70's one in the 30s) recruits with multiple P5 offers when they hit campus in Lawrence. If you want to give Self credit for seeing what others didn't early on, by all means go for it. People are giving Self credit for his recruiting as part of the reason why he's an elite coach...unless you have some kind of star breakdown on coaches as to whether he too is actually elite.

From that point forward they've played for a tremendous coach who has brought out the best in them and built on what they were. Nobody is denying their development and lord knows there have been plenty of 4 and 5* kids that didn't pan out. Again, that's credit to Bill Self and these two players. For the life of me I can't even figure out what you're arguing about. People are saying Self is a helluva coach but I guess you don't agree with the reasons? If you were making an argument about elite talent vs. development I would think it would be centered around Lucas, not two 4* guards.

If you want to play semantics on elite vs. very good vs. ??? that's your prerogative. I don't know that I've ever seen something where two separate fan bases are complementing another team's coach and a fan of that team is arguing about the compliment.

 

[surly]

The problem is that you seem to want to say these guys were basically glorified walkons while the facts simply don't support that argument. Mason and Graham were 4*, top 75 (one in the 70's one in the 30s) recruits with multiple P5 offers when they hit campus in Lawrence. If you want to give Self credit for seeing what others didn't early on, by all means go for it. People are giving Self credit for his recruiting as part of the reason why he's an elite coach...unless you have some kind of star breakdown on coaches as to whether he too is actually elite.

From that point forward they've played for a tremendous coach who has brought out the best in them and built on what they were. Nobody is denying their development and lord knows there have been plenty of 4 and 5* kids that didn't pan out. Again, that's credit to Bill Self and these two players. For the life of me I can't even figure out what you're arguing about. People are saying Self is a helluva coach but I guess you don't agree with the reasons? If you were making an argument about elite talent vs. development I would think it would be centered around Lucas, not two 4* guards.

If you want to play semantics on elite vs. very good vs. ??? that's your prerogative. I don't know that I've ever seen something where two separate fan bases are complementing another team's coach and a fan of that team is arguing about the compliment.

I started this by saying a large part of coaching is recruiting. That's when the whine started.

Here's what I wrote: Part of coaching, the biggest in my view, is recruiting. Self has a huge talent advantage in most games, including last night.

 

[ca4cy]

I started this by saying a large part of being a great coach is recruiting. That's when the whine started.

Here's what I wrote: Part of coaching, the biggest in my view, is recruiting. Self has a huge talent advantage in most games, including last night.

I know, but it's not like you said the only reason Self is great is because he has better talent. He deserves credit for his ability to bring in really good (elite, great, whatever the hell we're supposed to call it) talent and develop them. Again, this whole thing is really odd.