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FinalFourCy

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View attachment 53695

There was very little fluctuation in our starting lineup that year. There a few dings and suspensions, yes, as there is with any team in any season, but I do not remember any starters or rotation guys having to shut it down for a few weeks like we have had this year with Weiler-Babb, Talley, Brase, and now Solomon. Phillips was just a bust, and I liked Godfrey as an energy guy off the bench that season, and Bubu turned into a decent college player.

Their main five were mostly available (31/32) and in playing shape.

That has not been the case this year entirely.
Even without injuries they had 6 rotation guys plus a walkon. That’s worse than this year. The only starting fluctuation this year has been NWB, as Prohm wasting minutes on Beverly was his own doing.

Plus, JVB and Scotty missed games. Guys had injuries. Phillips quit. Did we not need to add football players mid-year due to the circumstances? Nice effort, but thst year faced adversity, like all seasons.
 

Sigmapolis

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Even without injuries they had 6 rotation guys plus a walkon. That’s worse than this year. The only starting fluctuation this year has been NWB, as Prohm wasting minutes on Beverly was his own doing.

Plus, JVB and Scotty missed games. Guys had injuries. Phillips quit. Did we not need to add football players mid-year due to the circumstances? Nice effort, but thst year faced adversity, like all seasons.
Multiple rotation guys did not go down for long stretches like this year. NWB was playing almost 40 per night -- did DG ever go down for a few weeks?

That would be the equivalent. I do not remember that happening.

Hoiberg had an ineffective but tall warm body in Jordan Railey to run out there, too.

Prohm investing in Beverly instead of Lard is his own fault, agreed, but Beverly's minutes fell pretty quickly even before Lard started formally starting.

I am actually surprised we did not add 1-2 guys from the football team this year.

We could have used the practice bodies.

Heck, we are almost to the point now where we would need them for games.
 

cycjob

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This season is the best argument I have seen against "banking" a scholarship. Even if the player you signed wasn't Big12 quality, they would at least be another body.

The way it sits now, if we have foul trouble in a game we might end up having to play with fewer than 5 players. At some point, do they consider just forfeiting?
 

FinalFourCy

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Multiple rotation guys did not go down for long stretches like this year. NWB was playing almost 40 per night -- did DG ever go down for a few weeks?

That would be the equivalent. I do not remember that happening.

Hoiberg had an ineffective but tall warm body in Jordan Railey to run out there, too.

Prohm investing in Beverly instead of Lard is his own fault, agreed, but Beverly's minutes fell pretty quickly even before Lard started formally starting.

I am actually surprised we did not add 1-2 guys from the football team this year.

We could have used the practice bodies.

Heck, we are almost to the point now where we would need them for games.
They started off with that level of adversity with only 7 scholarship rotation guys. Then starters missed 4 games and more starts due to injury. That’s more missed starts than NWB. The only backup scholarship guard left before the second semester bringing the scholarship rotation to 6. We had to add football players when Scotty hurt his elbow.

We had similar aggregate missed starter time as this year. This year has more backup injuries, but that year had their backup guard quit, plus we’ve never been down to the 6 that year was at, and frankly, our bench isn’t good enough for it to matter.

The adversity narrative is overblown. Most of the impact is self-inflicted due to poor recruiting decisions and outcomes. Brase hurt? Who would have guessed? Our margin is so thin that missing players likely cost us 2 to 4 games, but it hasn’t been an abnormal amount of adversity imo. If Bryan Petersen or Haluska got hurt in those McD days, pushing the adversity narrative would have made the Pravda proud. Let’s hope NWB isn’t another Wesley Johnson, then we’ll have adversity.
 
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Sigmapolis

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They started off with that level of adversity with only 7 scholarship rotation guys. Then starters missed 4 games and more starts due to injury. That’s more missed starts than NWB. The only backup scholarship guard left before the second semester bringing the scholarship rotation to 6. We had to add football players when Scotty hurt his elbow.

We had similar aggregate missed starter time as this year. This year has more backup injuries, but that year had their backup guard quit, plus we’ve never been down to the 6 that year was at, and frankly, our bench isn’t good enough for it to matter.
I agree with most of this, but I think the largest difference comes down to Talley. I think that if he was healthy the whole year, Talley would have been a clear sixth man and played minutes on par with the main five starters that we have had.

He probably missed the most time of everybody save Brase. He was borderline losing a starter.
 

Cyclonepride

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This season is the best argument I have seen against "banking" a scholarship. Even if the player you signed wasn't Big12 quality, they would at least be another body.

The way it sits now, if we have foul trouble in a game we might end up having to play with fewer than 5 players. At some point, do they consider just forfeiting?
Marchie Murdock is campaigning again. I'd love to see them give him a chance.
 

FinalFourCy

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I agree with most of this, but I think the largest difference comes down to Talley. I think that if he was healthy the whole year, Talley would have been a clear sixth man and played minutes on par with the main five starters that we have had.

He probably missed the most time of everybody save Brase. He was borderline losing a starter.
Imo Talley not getting injured (and if used correctly) would have gained us few wins. I’m not sold this staff knew at that point how to utilize him, nor is having a bench guy miss some games abnormal adversity.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Might need this lineup soon

Wigginton
Lewis
Long
Talley
Lard
Depending on injuries and Donovan's utterly understandably bereavement, our starting lineup tomorrow night could easily be what you put forth there.

We might be down to Beverly, Talley, Long, Wigginton, Lewis, and Lard (6) while suiting like Brase and NWB up with absolutely no intention of playing them.
 

Sigmapolis

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Imo Talley not getting injured (and if used correctly) would have gained us few wins. I’m not sold this staff knew at that point how to utilize him, nor is having a bench guy miss some games abnormal adversity.
I thought they figured him out pretty quickly once he got out there healthy.

He is a good ball-handler with some flashy moves to the basket but almost no outside shot but switch-tastic on defense and can credibly guard all positions.

That would have helped a lot in those early losses against UT, OSU, and KU while, maybe not getting us into the NCAA tournament, at least help our record.
 

Cyclonepride

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I thought they figured him out pretty quickly once he got out there healthy.

He is a good ball-handler with some flashy moves to the basket but almost no outside shot but switch-tastic on defense and can credibly guard all positions.

That would have helped a lot in those early losses against UT, OSU, and KU while, maybe not getting us into the NCAA tournament, at least help our record.
Yeah, the main problem in playing Talley more at a mismatch spot (the 4) is that you have to take out Solomon to do that. Along with the obvious inexperience factor, and the injury bug, we have had a problem of awkward composition this year.
 
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FinalFourCy

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Depending on injuries and Donovan's utterly understandably bereavement, our starting lineup tomorrow night could easily be what you put forth there.

We might be down to Beverly, Talley, Long, Wigginton, Lewis, and Lard (6) while suiting like Brase and NWB up with absolutely no intention of playing them.
If life were fair DJ would get another half-season. Damn.


Maybe this will help us see the small-ball potential of these guys. Talley and Long at the four over Beverly, please.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Yeah, the main problem in playing Talley more at a mismatch spot (the 4) is that you have to take out Solomon to do that. Along with the obvious inexperience factor, and the injury bug, we have had a problem of awkward composition this year.
Agreed. Our composition has not hurt us too much on offense... Wiggi gets to the basket, Jackson makes shots, Nick makes good passes, Lard cleans up trash on the boards... but we do not have a lot of flexible defenders outside of Nick and Zoran.

That should come with experience and time. Lard, for instance, has the body and speed to probably defend 3-5 or even 2-5, but has not learned how to do it.

He looks lost on the perimeter.

He is the poster child for why stretch big men are valuable, and they have killed us this year, along with PNRs because we are so scared of switching.

We are scared that if we switch off a PNR that they will have an obvious mismatch to exploit, and they are right, so we are going to suffer one way or the other.
 

FinalFourCy

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I thought they figured him out pretty quickly once he got out there healthy.

He is a good ball-handler with some flashy moves to the basket but almost no outside shot but switch-tastic on defense and can credibly guard all positions.

That would have helped a lot in those early losses against UT, OSU, and KU while, maybe not getting us into the NCAA tournament, at least help our record.
Hmm, I don’t think they’ve really figured it out yet, let alone prior to before NWB started sitting. We would have been better off starting Talley at the four (and NWB at pg) Exhibition 1.

He’s 5-11 on 3Ps the last 11 games. Sign me up for that being indicative of him improving his outside shot.
 
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Sigmapolis

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Hmm, I don’t think they’ve really figured it out yet, let alone prior to before NWB started sitting. We would have been better off starting Talley at the four (and NWB at pg) Exhibition 1.

He’s 5-11 on 3Ps the last 11 games. Sign me up for that being indicative of him improving his outside shot.
Good points. Very good point on your last number.

He is an obvious 4 to put along with Lard. Solomon being there first and starting ahead of him just complicates where you use him in the rotation.

I know Prohm is loyal, but with Talley (and other potential wing options around next year such as Shayok and THT) around... he might need to pick from Lard or Young.

We do not play that bruising style to make playing two traditional big men viable, and this conference has way too many flexible 4 men in it.

We might just have to go with it.

Wigginton
Weiler-Babb
Shayok
Talley
Lard

...could switch everything on the perimeter.
 

Cyclonepride

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Good points. Very good point on your last number.

He is an obvious 4 to put along with Lard. Solomon being there first and starting ahead of him just complicates where you use him in the rotation.

I know Prohm is loyal, but with Talley (and other potential wing options around next year such as Shayok and THT) around... he might need to pick from Lard or Young.

We do not play that bruising style to make playing two traditional big men viable, and this conference has way too many flexible 4 men in it.

We might just have to go with it.

Wigginton
Weiler-Babb
Shayok
Talley
Lard

...could switch everything on the perimeter.
The other factor is that Talley was hurt much of the year, while Solomon was pretty much always there, and he could defend the other team's primary big, and do it well. Take Solomon out and Talley is probably guarding whoever Lard had, and Lard is guarding whoever Solomon had, and possibly getting in more foul trouble.
 
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rholtgraves

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Hmm, I don’t think they’ve really figured it out yet, let alone prior to before NWB started sitting. We would have been better off starting Talley at the four (and NWB at pg) Exhibition 1.

He’s 5-11 on 3Ps the last 11 games. Sign me up for that being indicative of him improving his outside shot.
Talley was in the dog house to start the season.
 

FinalFourCy

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Talley was in the dog house to start the season.
He played 27 minutes in the exhibition, 26 minutes against Missouri and 31 minutes against Milwaukee. Was the dog house not playing him as a mismatch? That seems to have lasted more than just the start of the season.