***Iowa Dual Gameday Thread***

[HFCS]

Hope to watch some replays but if refs really called stalling on an ISU wrestler fighting off a half and an arm bar, likely because of idiot fans yelling idiot things at them, then I'm very glad Gadson pi$$ed off some Iowa fans. (knowing the team score was out of reach)

 

[Muzzy]

I remember Metcalf motioning his hand like he was "pleasuring himself" after beating Mitch Mueller at National Duals in Cedar Falls years ago.
Now this aimed at Brands and not the crowd, but made excellent TV.
Just one of my favorite moments in "hawkeye sportsmanship"

 

[Section110]

#silverlining

Typical response. We didn't even come close to winning.... But at least "this" happened (any lame meaningless victory can be placed in the "this" column).

Regarding the taunting, I could care less. It is wrestling. Yes, I would prefer they show respect, but at the same time it's that type of crap that makes the meet more intense. I think it's fun to watch. It's no secret Brands coaches up his wrestlers to not take **** from anyone and to be as intimidating as possible. I would argue that's a big part of the success they have. You have to be confident in yourself and you have to bring it every single match or you'll get beat. Brands doesn't accept defeat. It is shameful and embarrassing. So in the end I really have no problem with a guy who dominates a match acting like a neanderthal. As long as his actions are backing up his talk. Is it necessary? No it's not, but I see no reason to let it bother you.

 

[tigerclone924]

Gonzo is an idiot; must not have a life to troll on the opposition's forum when winning by a wide margin. Football and basketball are not looking so good in IC this year, so wrestling has to fill the void. Especially when you consider that the Hawkeye athletic budget is about $25 million higher than ours. With those numbers, you have to win at something - or do you?

But let's given credit where credit is due. We may not like their methods, but the Hawks recruit like crazy and that is why they are where they are and we are where we are. I hate the attitude and hate the wrestling culture there, but if we want to play in the big leagues, that is what we are up against.

But more than losing, I am really, really annoyed that we are gassed by the 3rd round - that is unforgiveable at this level and it happens every year. It is so, so frustrating to watch.

My hats off to those wrestlers who left it all on the mat, and who work to the best of their god given ability every day in the room.

But the bottom line? We need more talent and we need better conditioning if we are going to play even with the big dogs. Plain and simple. I can take losing to the #1 ranked team in the country. But I cannot watch guys that are not in condition in late November. It just isn't right.

Conditioning is not great this time of the year. It sucks to lose to Iowa, their fans are ********, etc.

Let's see how we progress. KJ's international experience has always led to guys wrestling their best at the end of the year. I think this team has more points in them than the last two, so we will see how it plays out.

Of course guys will be in better shape later in the year!
Funny it's not a problem in Iowa City this time of year though.
Like was said earlier, it's one thing to get dominated on the scoreboard (that comes down to talent) it's another to be dominated in the things that less talented guys HAVE TO be better at (i.e. Conditioning, intensity, technique). Sorry to start the KJ bashing but that's coaching!

 

[cloneswereall]

Of course guys will be in better shape later in the year!
Funny it's not a problem in Iowa City this time of year though.
Like was said earlier, it's one thing to get dominated on the scoreboard (that comes down to talent) it's another to be dominated in the things that less talented guys HAVE TO be better at (i.e. Conditioning, intensity, technique). Sorry to start the KJ bashing but that's coaching!

Really? I can think of maybe two matches where it seemed like ISU's wrestlers were less conditioned (Rodriguez was the obvious one, and I think an argument could be made for Goettl... barely) than the Iowa wrestlers they faced. Other than those two matches, it did not appear that one wrestler was obviously better conditioned on the mat.

 

[tigerclone924]

Really? I can think of maybe two matches where it seemed like ISU's wrestlers were less conditioned (Rodriguez was the obvious one, and I think an argument could be made for Goettl... barely) than the Iowa wrestlers they faced. Other than those two matches, it did not appear that one wrestler was obviously better conditioned on the mat.

Really?! Did we watch the same meet? Evans had to call Weatherman back to the center. Weatherspoon was gassed after the first period. It was team wide pretty much.

 

[cloneswereall]

Really?! Did we watch the same meet? Evans had to call Weatherman back to the center. Weatherspoon was gassed after the first period. It was team wide pretty much.

And what were the Iowa wrestlers doing at the same time? The same thing. I expected to see ISU wrestlers to be poorly conditioned compared to Iowa's when the meet started. They were sucking just as much air as ISU's grapplers were. I didn't say that ISU wrestlers were in peak conditioning form, I said that they were right there with Iowa's wrestlers throughout the dual.

 

[Judoka]

Evans had to call Weatherman back to the center.

That's just part of their whole schtik. Weatherman looked fine in the third period, got a takedown and was still shooting and looking to score near the end. I just rewatched the third period of that match and Evans looked as or more tired than Weatherman. Gable was even commenting that it looked like they both had emptied their tanks. He also turned what had been 1-10 losses the past two years into a 7-4 loss. Yeah, it wasn't a win. But he closed the gap by a lot.

Weatherspoon was gassed after the first period.

Just rewatched that one to. You can see him taking shots in the second no problem, and they take a close up of him between the second and third and he's not even breathing heavily. He wilted after those backpoints at the end of the second. I totally agree with that. But it wasn't because he was sucking wind.

 

[CyTwins]

#silverlining

Typical response. We didn't even come close to winning.... But at least "this" happened (any lame meaningless victory can be placed in the "this" column).

Regarding the taunting, I could care less. It is wrestling. Yes, I would prefer they show respect, but at the same time it's that type of crap that makes the meet more intense. I think it's fun to watch. It's no secret Brands coaches up his wrestlers to not take **** from anyone and to be as intimidating as possible. I would argue that's a big part of the success they have. You have to be confident in yourself and you have to bring it every single match or you'll get beat. Brands doesn't accept defeat. It is shameful and embarrassing. So in the end I really have no problem with a guy who dominates a match acting like a neanderthal. As long as his actions are backing up his talk. Is it necessary? No it's not, but I see no reason to let it bother you.

So you do care some?

 

[tigerclone924]

Maybe I was on the ledge a bit last night after seeing some things I really didn't like. I still feel Iowa was in much better shape and their intensity (I realize this is a Brands hallmark) blew us out of the gym.
My biggest positive, Rodriguez impressed! Got in deep on 3 shots for sure and impressively finished the one. And he didn't look outclassed in the least!
Kyven's display left a bad taste in my mouth but I even told my friend that while they were waiting to wrestle (TV delay) it looked like the Iowa kid was talking smack. So that, then the shove by the Iowa kid (which was completely off the mat) culminated in his emotional outburst.
I'll reserve judgement and hope against hope that I am 100% wrong and ISU wrestling is on it's way back! Go Clones!

 

[Judoka]

What does worry me is that we gave up a riding time point in 6 of 10 matches. And it would have been 7 if Heavyweight hadn't ended early.

 

[tigerclone924]

Very true Judoka! And a few were close to 2 full minutes! That's another glaring difference between us and them. Movement on the whistle on bottom for them, not so much for us. My buddy (Hawk fan mind you, but I agree) said it looked like a lot of our guys looked like they wrestled not to get majored.

 

[NEICyFan]

I think I read every page of this thread even all of the gibberish and I don't see where anyone noted that the reason For the team point penalty was because Gadsen spiked his head gear. It wasn't because of taunting or anything like that. That's a textbook penalty. Gadsen is a good kid and let his emotions get the best of him. Yes, it looks a little weak when you taunt the crowd after pinning a backup in the 3rd period of a one point match but I enjoyed the display of emotion. What he needs to realize is that if he's going to be Ric Flair the crowd is not going to react kindly. Also, note that Burak has a knee issue and though he weighed in he was never going to wrestle.

One other comment is on the stalling calls for Earl. When he's being ridden he's in the habit of keeping his head down. Probably a symptom of his freestyle career. Refs are going to be watching you closely if you wrestle from the bottom position like that. Hall doesn't look much like a 133 pounder to me.

Mike Evans is a legend in his own mind. Has anyone so unaccomplished thought more highly of themselves? Weatherman is closing the gap. Great to see.

Pulling Rodriguez's redshirt is a just plain bad move. He's talented but he might be the difference between 6th and 7th place this year. No thank you. What is the deal with Meeks???

I hope the coaches put Smith in the bottom position for experience and improvement and not out of strategy because it was pretty obvious to me that Telford was going to turn him.

The meet went about as I expected, unfortunately. We are better than we were last year and a few years ago. I can't say we have grown by leaps and bounds but we have no doubt improved. I continue to question when we will again become elite As I do not see it in our recruiting, but overall we look more like we belong today than we once did. That's progress.

 

[theshadow]

I don't see where anyone noted that the reason For the team point penalty was because Gadsen spiked his head gear.

Because it was never mentioned on the broadcast. They came back from break and said ISU was deducted a team point, but no explanation. Rob Brooks missed it. Gable missed it. The other "analyst" missed it. Their stats guy missed it. But that's about what I expect from a production of that caliber.

 

[Land Grant]

This is pretty spot on. The Gadsen thing is no big deal, but lacking real controversy in a heated rivalry the fans need to fixate on something. Voila.

I've been simultaneously a supporter and skeptic of KJ's program. What I've come down to is that he's a somewhat above average coach, but probably not elite. He has some real strengths (his ability to get wrestlers to peak is strong, he is a great coach of elite talent, and I think he has a good heart). He has weaknesses (poor judgment on redshirts and team management, inability to translate his freestyle skills to folkstyle, initial problems selecting staff). His recruiting is average, but then under Pollard ISU only gives wrestling average (or slightly below average) support.

On the whole, he is equal to or better than most coaches out there and is slowly bringing ISU up to the a level where they'll be the best of a second tier. I do not see him putting together an elite program, but then only a handful of coaches do (and they have more AD help than any ISU coach has ever had).

I think I read every page of this thread even all of the gibberish and I don't see where anyone noted that the reason For the team point penalty was because Gadsen spiked his head gear. It wasn't because of taunting or anything like that. That's a textbook penalty. Gadsen is a good kid and let his emotions get the best of him. Yes, it looks a little weak when you taunt the crowd after pinning a backup in the 3rd period of a one point match but I enjoyed the display of emotion. What he needs to realize is that if he's going to be Ric Flair the crowd is not going to react kindly. Also, note that Burak has a knee issue and though he weighed in he was never going to wrestle.

One other comment is on the stalling calls for Earl. When he's being ridden he's in the habit of keeping his head down. Probably a symptom of his freestyle career. Refs are going to be watching you closely if you wrestle from the bottom position like that. Hall doesn't look much like a 133 pounder to me.

Mike Evans is a legend in his own mind. Has anyone so unaccomplished thought more highly of themselves? Weatherman is closing the gap. Great to see.

Pulling Rodriguez's redshirt is a just plain bad move. He's talented but he might be the difference between 6th and 7th place this year. No thank you. What is the deal with Meeks???

I hope the coaches put Smith in the bottom position for experience and improvement and not out of strategy because it was pretty obvious to me that Telford was going to turn him.

The meet went about as I expected, unfortunately. We are better than we were last year and a few years ago. I can't say we have grown by leaps and bounds but we have no doubt improved. I continue to question when we will again become elite As I do not see it in our recruiting, but overall we look more like we belong today than we once did. That's progress.

 

[howellc33]

Weatherman lost 7-4 and you could argue that two half shots he took cost him 4 points. Evans is solid, but you can clearly see Weatherman is improving.

 

[Judoka]

Just started looking at the Vegas rosters. Whoof. That this is going to be loaded. At 165, for example, it'll have the 2, 3, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16, and 17th ranked guys. And Gadson will have both Schiller and Snyder in his bracket.

 

[clonedude]

Loved this morning's CR Gazette write up over here in eastern Iowa. Only gave quotes from Iowa wrestlers and nothing from anyone on ISU's side. Classic.

So there's a bunch of quotes ripping on ISU basically and nothing from the other perspective. That is some objective reporting right there folks.

 

[NEICyFan]

I've been simultaneously a supporter and skeptic of KJ's program. What I've come down to is that he's a somewhat above average coach, but probably not elite. He has some real strengths (his ability to get wrestlers to peak is strong, he is a great coach of elite talent, and I think he has a good heart). He has weaknesses (poor judgment on redshirts and team management, inability to translate his freestyle skills to folkstyle, initial problems selecting staff). His recruiting is average, but then under Pollard ISU only gives wrestling average (or slightly below average) support.

On the whole, he is equal to or better than most coaches out there and is slowly bringing ISU up to the a level where they'll be the best of a second tier. I do not see him putting together an elite program, but then only a handful of coaches do (and they have more AD help than any ISU coach has ever had).

The claim that ISU wrestling is not well supported was born on the Internet as an excuse for an underperforming program. Recall the ridiculous claim from last year that UNI's program is better supported as some evidence of this. The number of programs with more overall resources/support than ours can probably be counted on one hand. We are one of the few schools where a title can be won.

 

[CTTB78]

I never liked it when Ramos did it, I don't like it when Brands does it, I don't like it at all. Guys going out there and putting their balls on the line deserve more respect than their opponent doing smacky crap like that. I hate it, no matter who's doing it. Let the ref raise your arm, respect your opponent, get off the mat. That's all.

As long as you've posted the same on the Hawk board, cool. Would never waste my time going to a Hawk board, so I'll have to take your word for it.