Illegal block

Discussion in 'Football' started by dabears32, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. dabears32

    dabears32 Active Member

    Nov 23, 2009
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  2. MeanDean

    MeanDean Well-Known Member

    Jan 5, 2009
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    Looks like helmet to helmet in the slomo replay. If not for that, maybe Nebby would have won:jimlad:
     
  3. ianoconnor

    ianoconnor Well-Known Member

    Nov 11, 2007
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    He led with his shoulder. Legit block, the guy clearly had an opportunity to tackle the ball carrier.
     
  4. Tredici

    Tredici Member

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    Completely legal. Defense pursuing a WR, not looking, offensive player comes in and lays a shoulder down. I see no reason why this wouldn't be legal, we aren't playing soccer here.
     
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  5. dabears32

    dabears32 Active Member

    Nov 23, 2009
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    pause it at the 46 sec mark. Looks like clear helmet to helmet action to me
     
  6. Clonefan94

    Clonefan94 Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2006
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    It was legal. If you are going to start penalizing guys for putting a block on someone who had a shot at the ball carrier, then you might as well put flags on everyone. He lead with the shoulder, it was clear in full speed and in slo-mo replay. It was one of the worst calls of the season, imo, for all the "defenseless" type calls I've seen this season. It's football, sometimes you get hit so hard it hurts, doesn't mean it's illeagal.
     
  7. AllInForISU

    AllInForISU Active Member

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  8. IcSyU

    IcSyU Well-Known Member

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    I wish I knew how the rule was written. In principal it's no different than the free safety targeting a receiver going across the middle. If it's written to only protect receivers then it was legal. Then you get into the quarterback argument where going near the head is an automatic flag.

    All that said, it was a good flag. The helmet to helmet made it a pretty easy call, especially considering it's a point of emphasis for this year and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
     
  9. huntt26

    huntt26 Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2006
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    po' dUnk
    That was awesome
     
  10. Tredici

    Tredici Member

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    Defenseless receivers have not made the play yet, thus protecting the ability to not impede a play. In this circumstance, the receiver had caught the ball and the defense was in pursuit. The offensive player got in front of the defender chasing and used his shoulder to knock him down. The fact that their helmets made contact isn't the issue because that happens all the time.

    The thing is that he did not lead with his helmet. If the defensive player was hit like that before the ball was thrown, then it would be the exact same rule as defensive receiver.

    If you watch the whole thing, Kenny Bell was very well mannered in how it was handled. He did not celebrate; he talked with the officials and didn't throw a hissy fit even though the call didn't go his way.
     
  11. AllInForISU

    AllInForISU Active Member

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    Wait...what?
     
  12. LutherBlue

    LutherBlue Well-Known Member

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    I agree, much different circumstance between a receiver going for the ball and someone in pursuit of a ball carrier.
     
  13. dabears32

    dabears32 Active Member

    Nov 23, 2009
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    helmet to helmet seems clear to me.

    Not sure on the launching: to me its clear he was but can you get flagged when one foot is still on the ground?
     
  14. Tredici

    Tredici Member

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    Essentially saying. The catch had already happened so "defenseless" kind of goes out the back door, especially since the defender was in pursuit. Also that he led with his shoulder. Accidental helmet to helmet happens every play (linemen).
     
  15. 00clone

    00clone Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2011
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    This one's a hard one, the way I see it, and a good example of where football is right now.

    By the rulebook, legal. There was helmet to helmet, but the blocker clearly led with his shoulder. Simple physics and physiology that the shoulder is close to the head and at those speeds, things keep moving.

    However, with the defender having no clue that the blocker was coming, the same goal (block to prevent a tackle) could have been accomplished with a same speed push, leading with the hands. In my mind, an instance of 'ohhhhh....ima light this effer up right here'.

    But how do you deal with that? If a hard hit, just because it's a hard hit, is illegal, then we're playing a different game. On the flip side, hits like this are why the NFL is getting sued by former players for brain trauma.

    You could take the easy path and say let the refs decide...give them more leeway on 'unnecessary roughness', but we're already arguing those calls today, giving them the reigns to decide what's justified and not is only going to get more controversial.
     
  16. IcSyU

    IcSyU Well-Known Member

    Nov 27, 2007
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    You can't tell me you honestly think a collision of linemen is the same as an open field collision like that.

    Note: I do think if you're going to frown upon helmet to helmet contact the ball carrier leading with their head should be flagged accordingly. Hitting with your facemask is one thing, hitting with the crown of the helmet is another.
     
  17. LutherBlue

    LutherBlue Well-Known Member

    Oct 19, 2006
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    Led with the shoulder and initial contact was made with the defender's shoulder. Helmets hit thereafter, that can't be a penalty.
     
  18. Agclone91

    Agclone91 Well-Known Member

    Feb 5, 2011
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    Good point. The refs should pause life and rewind next time there's a questionable hit to figure out if it was the correct call.

    Also, if you watch the part your speaking of, you can clearly see that his shoulder pad made first contact with the other guy's chest.

    Wisconsin player was in pursuit of the ball carrier, Bell led with his shoulder and kept his head in front of the defenders body, it was a clean hit. A dang hard call to make at full speed though and 99% of the time that would have been flagged. Seems like any sort of seriously hard hit is pretty much an automatic 15 yard penalty anymore.
     
  19. Tredici

    Tredici Member

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    I agree linemen isn't the same. However, it is more direct. This was clearly shoulder first and momentum of head/helmet second.
     
  20. Cycsk

    Cycsk Well-Known Member

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    Led with his shoulder. Legal. The Helmet to helmet contact is incidental.
     

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