Hey 19 - Random Thoughts: In the year 2525...more or less

[VeloClone]

Daughter's boyfriend is a student at ISU he had to do a group final project in a class with several different parts including some parts that they hadn't covered in that particular class. Luckily he had learned in another class how to do several of the gap parts so he took the lead on the majority of this group project and probably ended up doing 60% of a 4 person project. He used the template of a proposal he had developed in the other class to develop his proposal for this project.

Right as he is leaving for break he learns he is being accused of academic dishonesty (or however they put it) in this class and he needs to respond if he wants to put up a defense. He is given a case manager to talk to but both the case manager and the prof are gone on winter break so he can't communicate with either one to find out details so he knows what he is supposed to respond to. Finally he gets detail last week and is given just a few days to either admit that he is guilty of academic violations, take a huge hit to his grade, and take some "do better" class or face serious sanctions.

He is still not clear what he was supposed to do in this situation. Aren't you supposed to use the tools you develop in one class as the basis for your work in the next class. It isn't like he submitted the same work, he used it as a starting point and then developed it for this case. Isn't that what we ask people to do in their work lives all the time?

I don't think using a template you developed as a starting point for drafting proposals is what is meant by the academic code where you aren't supposed to submit as work for one class what you have submitted for another class.

He is frustrated because everyone complains about this prof but the department head does nothing about the prof because they are buddies and have published work together.

What are we even doing here?

Does anyone have any insight into this at Iowa State?

 

[VeloClone]

We finally put away the mouse traps a couple of days ago because it had been a week since we had caught any. We figured we'd ended the current invasion.

I went downstairs to get more water last night and didn't turn the overhead lights on (we have floor level night lights). I saw something on the floor and picked it up. BIG mistake!

Mouse heads, mouse heads, roly poly mouse heads...

We didn't find the rest of the mouse...but at least we know for sure it wasn't in our bed!

Do you?

 

[BCClone]

Daughter's boyfriend is a student at ISU he had to do a group final project in a class with several different parts including some parts that they hadn't covered in that particular class. Luckily he had learned in another class how to do several of the gap parts so he took the lead on the majority of this group project and probably ended up doing 60% of a 4 person project. He used the template of a proposal he had developed in the other class to develop his proposal for this project.

Right as he is leaving for break he learns he is being accused of academic dishonesty (or however they put it) in this class and he needs to respond if he wants to put up a defense. He is given a case manager to talk to but both the case manager and the prof are gone on winter break so he can't communicate with either one to find out details so he knows what he is supposed to respond to. Finally he gets detail last week and is given just a few days to either admit that he is guilty of academic violations, take a huge hit to his grade, and take some "do better" class or face serious sanctions.

He is still not clear what he was supposed to do in this situation. Aren't you supposed to use the tools you develop in one class as the basis for your work in the next class. It isn't like he submitted the same work, he used it as a starting point and then developed it for this case. Isn't that what we ask people to do in their work lives all the time?

I don't think using a template you developed as a starting point for drafting proposals is what is meant by the academic code where you aren't supposed to submit as work for one class what you have submitted for another class.

He is frustrated because everyone complains about this prof but the department head does nothing about the prof because they are buddies and have published work together.

What are we even doing here?

Does anyone have any insight into this at Iowa State?

My youngest took a CC class online and a rule was he couldn’t use any info that was not presented in class or in one of the 2-3 books that was assigned for the class. It was a history class, so it made it hard when all he got sometimes was slides with bullet points. He had to expound on them but be careful he didn’t use anything he had learned in another class. Too many profs are taking this “master” thing too far.

 

[SaraV]

Husband tomorrow goes in for rotator cuff surgery. Of course, it"s his dominant side. He'll be out of work for six weeks, and might be out of his "normal" job for three months. Oi. Here's hoping the short-term disability is fully approved.

And, of course, that leaves me to do nearly everything, which includes driving him to and from his part time job AND having to help him with his part time job. (IYKYK)

So, good thoughts/prayers/etc for the husband tomorrow morning would be appreciated.

 

[VeloClone]

My youngest took a CC class online and a rule was he couldn’t use any info that was not presented in class or in one of the 2-3 books that was assigned for the class. It was a history class, so it made it hard when all he got sometimes was slides with bullet points. He had to expound on them but be careful he didn’t use anything he had learned in another class. Too many profs are taking this “master” thing too far.

Yeah, that makes zero sense. Aren't we educating to make well rounded people who learn things but also learn how to reason and apply what they know in different applications?

I know a lot of employers expect their employees to "work smarter, not harder" and use and reuse what they have created rather than reinventing the wheel for each project. You don't have time to start from square one on every project.

I don't get it.

 

[wxman1]

Yeah, that makes zero sense. Aren't we educating to make well rounded people who learn things but also learn how to reason and apply what they know in different applications?

I know a lot of employers expect their employees to "work smarter, not harder" and use and reuse what they have created rather than reinventing the wheel for each project. You don't have time to start from square one on every project.

I don't get it.

Academia tends to live in its own world and it is infuriating.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Do you?

Yes...because we stripped the covers off.

 

[NWICY]

Daughter's boyfriend is a student at ISU he had to do a group final project in a class with several different parts including some parts that they hadn't covered in that particular class. Luckily he had learned in another class how to do several of the gap parts so he took the lead on the majority of this group project and probably ended up doing 60% of a 4 person project. He used the template of a proposal he had developed in the other class to develop his proposal for this project.

Right as he is leaving for break he learns he is being accused of academic dishonesty (or however they put it) in this class and he needs to respond if he wants to put up a defense. He is given a case manager to talk to but both the case manager and the prof are gone on winter break so he can't communicate with either one to find out details so he knows what he is supposed to respond to. Finally he gets detail last week and is given just a few days to either admit that he is guilty of academic violations, take a huge hit to his grade, and take some "do better" class or face serious sanctions.

He is still not clear what he was supposed to do in this situation. Aren't you supposed to use the tools you develop in one class as the basis for your work in the next class. It isn't like he submitted the same work, he used it as a starting point and then developed it for this case. Isn't that what we ask people to do in their work lives all the time?

I don't think using a template you developed as a starting point for drafting proposals is what is meant by the academic code where you aren't supposed to submit as work for one class what you have submitted for another class.

He is frustrated because everyone complains about this prof but the department head does nothing about the prof because they are buddies and have published work together.

What are we even doing here?

Does anyone have any insight into this at Iowa State?

My academic time was long ago, personally I'd take it to the dept head or Dean of college to explain my case.
I guess I don't understand how using a template and the putting the correct info in it would be wrong. Academic dishonesty to me means straight up plagiarism or cheating on tests but I'm not a academic.
@CycloneErik, @Entropy whats your opinions.

 

[VeloClone]

My academic time was long ago, personally I'd take it to the dept head or Dean of college to explain my case.
I guess I don't understand how using a template and the putting the correct info in it would be wrong. Academic dishonesty to me means straight up plagiarism or cheating on tests but I'm not a academic.
@CycloneErik, @Entropy whats your opinions.

Yeah, and he wasn't accused of plagiarism but of reusing too much of his own work that he had submitted for another class.

You know, I would get it if you submitted a book report on The Red Badge of Courage for one class and then submitted the same report on the same book for another class. I'm sure that is what the rule is for, not for building on what you have learned in another class to do your best work in the current class. That type of behavior is exactly what we want our kids (and our workforce) to learn to do. That is what we are paying $100,000+ to gain.

Unfortunately he isn't my kid so I really can't give him too much guidance. He feels cornered in a hopeless situation so he has already responded that he did it but he's still not sure specifically what crossed the line. Our daughter is begging him to request a meeting so he can get more information. But he says if it happens again he is leaving ISU. I know that's not the solution, but I get his frustration. We have given our daughter all sorts of advice to pass along to him including requesting the in person meeting he has a right to as well as contacting the dean, but he's not listening to her.

I thought we had gotten past the days of rote memorization and educating automatons but this sure indicates that we haven't come as far as I thought.

 

[Entropy]

My academic time was long ago, personally I'd take it to the dept head or Dean of college to explain my case.
I guess I don't understand how using a template and the putting the correct info in it would be wrong. Academic dishonesty to me means straight up plagiarism or cheating on tests but I'm not a academic.
@CycloneErik, @Entropy whats your opinions.

Hard to weigh in without more details, and what the overall project scope was.
It definitely sounds like less than stellar communication from prof, which in my experience is not uncommon.
I’m guessing reusing the proposal is the key since faculty talk/gossip regularly. Would be curious if the student had the same faculty member for both classes.

 

[VeloClone]

Hard to weigh in without more details, and what the overall project scope was.
It definitely sounds like less than stellar communication from prof, which in my experience is not uncommon.
I’m guessing reusing the proposal is the key since faculty talk/gossip regularly. Would be curious if the student had the same faculty member for both classes.

This is an evergreen complaint with this prof...

In my understanding, no.

 

[BoxsterCy]

We finally put away the mouse traps a couple of days ago because it had been a week since we had caught any. We figured we'd ended the current invasion.

I went downstairs to get more water last night and didn't turn the overhead lights on (we have floor level night lights). I saw something on the floor and picked it up. BIG mistake!

Mouse heads, mouse heads, roly poly mouse heads...

We didn't find the rest of the mouse...but at least we know for sure it wasn't in our bed!

I have a coffee cup with this on. I should give it to you guys.

 

[CycloneErik]

My academic time was long ago, personally I'd take it to the dept head or Dean of college to explain my case.
I guess I don't understand how using a template and the putting the correct info in it would be wrong. Academic dishonesty to me means straight up plagiarism or cheating on tests but I'm not a academic.
@CycloneErik, @Entropy whats your opinions.

The way mine did this fall was just like copying Wikipedia. They entered the term into Google, and copied the thing it brought up. The stuff Velo keeps referring to never happens.

So, not an opinion. Just an observed process of cheating.

 

[jcyclonee]

@jcyclonee, we need you man, to lend this thread some class and balance out my lack thereof.

Stopping in to say hi to everyone. Miss you all! If anybody can give me a quick summary of the last half year or so I'd appreciate it.

 

[jcyclonee]

Daughter's boyfriend is a student at ISU he had to do a group final project in a class with several different parts including some parts that they hadn't covered in that particular class. Luckily he had learned in another class how to do several of the gap parts so he took the lead on the majority of this group project and probably ended up doing 60% of a 4 person project. He used the template of a proposal he had developed in the other class to develop his proposal for this project.

Right as he is leaving for break he learns he is being accused of academic dishonesty (or however they put it) in this class and he needs to respond if he wants to put up a defense. He is given a case manager to talk to but both the case manager and the prof are gone on winter break so he can't communicate with either one to find out details so he knows what he is supposed to respond to. Finally he gets detail last week and is given just a few days to either admit that he is guilty of academic violations, take a huge hit to his grade, and take some "do better" class or face serious sanctions.

He is still not clear what he was supposed to do in this situation. Aren't you supposed to use the tools you develop in one class as the basis for your work in the next class. It isn't like he submitted the same work, he used it as a starting point and then developed it for this case. Isn't that what we ask people to do in their work lives all the time?

I don't think using a template you developed as a starting point for drafting proposals is what is meant by the academic code where you aren't supposed to submit as work for one class what you have submitted for another class.

He is frustrated because everyone complains about this prof but the department head does nothing about the prof because they are buddies and have published work together.

What are we even doing here?

Does anyone have any insight into this at Iowa State?

Do you want his dad's neighbors to go down there and put the fear of god into this professor?

 

[BCClone]

Do you want his dad's neighbors to go down there and put the fear of god into this professor?

Dremel tools scare no one.

 

[jcyclonee]

Dremel tools scare no one.

Have you seen how nerdy college professors are?

 

[VeloClone]

The way mine did this fall was just like copying Wikipedia. They entered the term into Google, and copied the thing it brought up. The stuff Velo keeps referring to never happens.

So, not an opinion. Just an observed process of cheating.

So you are saying I am lying about the situation?

What an ******* thing to say.

 

[VeloClone]

Do you want his dad's neighbors to go down there and put the fear of god into this professor?

Please don't mention it to him or his family. I don't think I am even supposed to know about it...

 

[CycloneErik]

So you are saying I am lying about the situation?

What an ******* thing to say.

I've been sick for days and missed the post.
That said, and from this reaction, you overreact awfully strongly and leave out key details routinely, so whatever.