Here's a good summary of conference revenues ...

Discussion in 'Big XII Conference' started by surly, May 18, 2017.

  1. surly

    surly Well-Known Member

    May 16, 2013
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    The focus is on PAC12 distributions but the summary brings it home for the rest of us. I've said before that both our conference and theirs should be pursuing some sort of joint arrangement. There are many ways to formulate it. If they don't the spread will only increases versus the BIG and SEC.

    SEC: $40.5 million
    Big Ten: $34.8 million
    Pac-12: $28.7 million
    Big 12: $28.45 million

    Notes:

    SEC figure is midpoint of confirmed range of $39.1 million to $41.9 million … Big Ten figure is for 11 continuing members … Big 12 figure is midpoint of confirmed range of $28 million to $28.9 million. Big 12 distributions do not include income from Tier 3 rights, which are owned by the schools.



    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/05/16/college-hotline-pac-12-finances-total-revenue-school-payouts-network-income-comps-with-secb1g-and-more/
     
  2. crash_zone

    crash_zone Well-Known Member

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    Or the B12 should just make a play for what they want from the PAC. Per school, B12 is better off.
     
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  3. jbhtexas

    jbhtexas Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be advantageous for the Big 12 and Pac-12 to make some kind of joint arrangement, but I don't think that arrangement would necessarily bring the revenues up to SEC and Big Ten levels. I think one of the primary underlying reason that the SEC and Big Ten get the money they do is because those conferences have more schools with big fan bases than do the BIg 12 and Pac-12.
     
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  4. norcalcy

    norcalcy Well-Known Member

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    PAC 12 figures are gross payouts that are subject to withholding of Tier 3 fee. Big XII definitely comes out ahead on that. Pretty high overhead to support those salaries for PAC conference and network joint employees. Larry Scott and his friends live well.
     
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  5. jbhtexas

    jbhtexas Well-Known Member

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    Correct. So...the Pac-12 Tier I/II deal is what it is, and the Pac-12 network generates very small revenue, leading to the payout above. So what does that say??? There is relatively less fan interest in the Pac 12 than there is in the other conferences??? How do you fix that? They tried to fix it by poaching UT and OU (plus friends), but that fell through.
     
  6. Stewo

    Stewo Well-Known Member

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    I cringe every time I see these numbers. I still think this whole model is going to come crashing down in near future.
     
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  7. jbhtexas

    jbhtexas Well-Known Member

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    The other day in another thread I brought up the study done several years ago that tried to determine fan base size for the FBS schools. Of course there are quibbles about some of the figures for schools, but I think those numbers probably give a good feel for relative conference fanbase size. Below are the average conference school fanbase size for the current conference configurations:

    Big Ten: 1,352,852
    SEC: 1,190,783
    ACC: 898,466
    Big 12: 835,388
    Pac-12: 645,062

    The SEC and Big Ten have the eyeballs. The Pac-12 has a problem (and it is reflected in their media revenue). To be frank, the Big 12 is a bit tenuous, as UT is really pulling up the average.

    IMO, the bottom 3 need to band together somehow. Perhaps between the three of them they could put together a linear network channel (or maybe 2) that could command a nice carriage fee, and maybe come up with some kind of cutting-edge streaming model.

    https://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/
     
  8. cykadelic2

    cykadelic2 Well-Known Member

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    #8 cykadelic2, May 18, 2017
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
    Banding together with the ACC won't happen due to their T1/T2/T3 rights all being owned by ESPN. Much more likely and sensible is the B12 (or 8 members minus BU and WV) buying equity shares in the PACN and forming a 20-school alliance with two divisions or conferences. Despite its issues, the PACN being wholly owned by member schools is already well positioned to deliver content via a linear network or streaming. What the PACN needs now is an equity partner with cash and an expanded footprint to more passionate fanbases in TX and the Midwest.
     
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  9. weR138

    weR138 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. I think the ONLY way the Pac can begin to keep up in the current TV subscription model is to add the state of Texas plus a program like OU. It seem to me that a combined Pac / XII network is the way to go as I've said many times. I would add BYU and one other western program (UNR? UNM?) to the XII, reduce the number of conf games, and set up cross conference scheduling agreements.
     
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  10. surly

    surly Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree with you Cy'k'2. It's so dang obvious, one would think even dopey Bob could figure it out and start a conversation with the $4 million man. The leagues are complimentary. An alliance would insure OU's needs are satisfied with USC, UCLA and others dotting their annual schedule. And the alliance could easily be limited to football and MBB.
     
  11. Beyerball

    Beyerball Well-Known Member

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    Agree that the best case/long term scenerio for both conferences is a merger i just dont see it happening. It would also be a massive collaboration academically as well which would dominate if it went that far anyway. I sure hope Bolwlsby and Scott are getting their paydays earned and talking about this regularly...

    If there is one silver lining to the big 12 not expanding last round is that they did their due diligence on all these potential candidates and found them not worthy of joining a P5 which will hlep a school like ISU come 2023.
     
  12. weR138

    weR138 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't suggest a merger but rather a shared TV network. No academic collaboration. Maybe nothing more than FB & MBB...
     
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  13. jbhtexas

    jbhtexas Well-Known Member

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    One problem you have is that at least 3 Big 12 schools (UT, OU, WVU) have to give up very lucrative T3 deals ($8 million/yr plus) to join up with a T3 network that has struggled to pay out $2 million/yr. And several other Big 12 schools have been reported to be making well over $2 million/yr on their T3 deals. How will those schools be convinced to do this? Will a Big 12 / Pac-12 alliance somehow give a boost to T1/T2 as well?
     
  14. CascadeClone

    CascadeClone Well-Known Member

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    What's key h
    The key is the 2nd tier rights, which bring some schools (UT, OU, WV) up above the B1G and maybe for UT above SEC revenue. Even ISU gets like $3M, right? So that's nearly B1G with limited sports and a limited home audience...

    From that angle, the Pac12 needs help more than anyone, and only the Big12 makes sense (unless they freak out and absorb parts of the WAC/MWC). Some kind of alliance for FB with divisions and a big CCG seems to make a lot of sense. But does it actually add $$ for the Big12, or just perceived stability? Is stability enough? Would the payout from the Pac12 network be higher than the 3rd tier rights? Maybe for TCU or ISU, but probably not for UT. And in the future with cord cutting the P12N might be even less valuable.

    I think it would be way cool junior to have some kind of alliance with the P12, games at Colorado or Utah etc. And for ISU it would bring some conference stability. But IDK if the $$ adds up, and of course that is the driver.
     
  15. cykadelic2

    cykadelic2 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, having a wholly owned T3 network in PACN provides leverage in T1 and T2 negotiations. If Fox, ESPN, Turner, CBS, etc. don’t want to pay us enough money for T1 and T2 content, then PACN will keep it. If the B12 maintains the status quo regarding T3, they won’t have that leverage for T1 and T2 and likely negate existing T3 windfalls for OU, UT and WV.
     
  16. cykadelic2

    cykadelic2 Well-Known Member

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  17. ISC

    ISC Member

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    Do we know how much ISU makes off cyclones.tv? I actually let my subscription lapse a few months ago (will probably renew around football time again this year or if i get a hankering to watch old basketball games again though).
     
  18. BillyClone

    BillyClone Active Member

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    I copied this from the Iowa Board of Regents Budget - Fiscal Year 2017. It was dated July 18, 2016 so there should be a new one coming out this summer.

    As you can see, there is a line titled "Multi-Media Rights". The estimate for FY2016 is $5.6M. However, this includes more than just revenue from Cyclones.TV. It includes things like advertising on video and ribbon boards. Before the improvements and the south end zone construction were completed at Jack Trice, that number was in the $3-4M range. Now it's in the $5-6M.

    Unfortunately, I don't know how much of this number ($5-6M) would be considered "3rd Tier". Perhaps someone has knowledge and would be willing to share. Or maybe a bunch of people would be willing to just give their opinion of what the answer is.

    upload_2017-5-26_8-29-9.png
     

    Attached Files:

  19. BMWallace

    BMWallace Active Member

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    I would love to see a Big 12/Pac 12 merger for the sake of future stability for when the whole conference shake-up happens in 2024. As others have mentioned the biggest issue is whether or not it would make sense for Texas and OU financially, but lets just go with the hypothetical, what would that conference look like, and what consessions would various parties have to make?

    First, WVU. They would likely want out due to the geographical layout and their cultural fit of this new conference. I dont think there would be many opposed to letting them duck out and join the ACC, where they are a far more natural fit.

    Next, TCU and Baylor. The Pac 12 has been opposed to letting religious institutions (BYU) join their conference for some time now. If they were willing to change that stance, then TCU and Baylor could stay, and an invite could be extended to BYU to get to 22 teams. You could also look to add two more schools to get to 24, but that seems unlikely with how last years expansion search went. I dont see a merger happening if TCU and Baylor (pending legal issues aside) aren't allowed in.

    So you end up with a conference of 22 or 24 teams.

    Pacific Division: Wash, Wazzou, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC, Utah, Arizona, Arizona St
    Plains Division: Colorado, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma, Okie St, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, BYU

    If they went to 24, they could add some combination of Houston, Colorado St, Boise St, UNLV, UNM, SDSU, or Air Force, do 4 divisions.
     
  20. knowlesjam

    knowlesjam Active Member

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    Just for kicks...do you have the attachment for Iowa? That would be an interesting comparison of overall revenue. The conference media and 3rd tier rights show us right around $34.3M, which is only $500K behind the BIG payout.
     
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