MLB: Fredi Gonzalez Next Cubs Manager?

CyJack13

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Ryno as a bench or base coach next season won't help him out that much. I think a lot of people don't know that Ryno is the 3rd base coach for the I-cubs. So he already has that experience.
I think the managerial job will be filled by whatever kind of team Ricketts wants. If he wants to go young and fast, such as Tampa Bay, then I think Ryno is the man for the job. If he wants to go veteran (and there isn't much evidence that is the case), then Girardi should be offered the job. If he wants a mix of both (my guess), then someone like B.B. could fit the mold.
Also, would you rather pay Girardi 6 mil or hire Ryno for 3 mil, and spend the extra cash on a player that can help the team? That's a tough call. If managers don't mean that much to a team, as some people contend, then spending the money on a player would probably be a better idea.

Yes, he would benefit from being a bench coach or a base coach next season. He's never dealt with major league players before, it's not that he needs practice coaching 3rd base, he needs the experience of dealing with MLB players every day.
 

chuckd4735

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You're still going to need somebody to get a hit at some point. You're not wasting a golden opportunity at all. The odds of scoring a run with a guy on second and no outs is greater than a guy on third and one out, the odds of scoring a run with a guy on first and no outs are greater than a guy on second and one out. In all those situations you're hurting your chances by bunting.

There are very few situations where you should bunt, with a pitcher at the plate or late in the game moving a runner from first to second with a weak batter are about the only times it's beneficial.

I understand what you're saying, but those chances definitely can sway depending on where you are in the batting order. You will only be successful in baseball if you react to the situation.
 

chuckd4735

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Yes, he would benefit from being a bench coach or a base coach next season. He's never dealt with major league players before, it's not that he needs practice coaching 3rd base, he needs the experience of dealing with MLB players every day.

So playing with them for 15 years doesn't help? You actually have to manage them to fully understand?
 

jdoggivjc

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You're still going to need somebody to get a hit at some point. You're not wasting a golden opportunity at all. The odds of scoring a run with a guy on second and no outs is greater than a guy on third and one out, the odds of scoring a run with a guy on first and no outs are greater than a guy on second and one out. In all those situations you're hurting your chances by bunting.

There are very few situations where you should bunt, with a pitcher at the plate or late in the game moving a runner from first to second with a weak batter are about the only times it's beneficial.

Holy crap - did you even read my previous posts?

Using a #3 hitter to bunt a guy from 2nd to 3rd? There had better be a very good reason for that. Otherwise you're just wasting someone who's likely the best hitter on your team. I mean, it's not like he's moving the guy into scoring position - he's already there, and I think he'd be better served trying to get the base hit to knock him home from second than just moving him over to 3rd.

Yes, I'm a Twins fan, a team that epitomizes "small ball". But even Gardy got into it earlier this year with Mauer when he laid down a bunt (yes, different situation - Mauer was going for straight base hit, but the point remains).

I was countering this argument:

Forgot about the pitcher but my point still is bunting and small ball in general is just a waste of outs.

It is NOT a waste of outs "in general", especially in a game where more often than not one run makes a big difference.
 

agronclone

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Yes, he would benefit from being a bench coach or a base coach next season. He's never dealt with major league players before, it's not that he needs practice coaching 3rd base, he needs the experience of dealing with MLB players every day.

He's gotten that in spring training for the past four years. Further, he was in the clubhouse as a player for many years. Granted, players today are much more selfish and arrogant than in his day, but he still knows about egos. Heck, minor league players can be like that, too, and he seems like he can put them in their place when he needs to.
 

CyJack13

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So playing with them for 15 years doesn't help? You actually have to manage them to fully understand?

Yeah I think it would help him to coach for a season or two. I don't see whats so shocking about this. Playing and coaching are not the same thing, and if I remember he didn't always get along with his teammates while he was playing, on the other hand, his wife sure did.
 

agronclone

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Yeah I think it would help him to coach for a season or two. I don't see whats so shocking about this. Playing and coaching are not the same thing, and if I remember he didn't always get along with his teammates while he was playing, on the other hand, his wife sure did.

what are you talking about? The Hawk just said recently what a great teammate he was. He spoke through his actions, not his words. He was quiet and went about his business. I haven't heard anything about him not getting along with his teammates
 

06Panther

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He will wind up in Atlanta. He is the easy choice to replace Cox. Plus it is a much better job than that abyss in chicago.
 

tm3308

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Forgot about the pitcher but my point still is bunting and small ball in general is just a waste of outs.

And living and dying by the homerun is how teams choke in the playoffs. What do you do when they just aren't getting out of the park?
 

gocubs2118

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And living and dying by the homerun is how teams choke in the playoffs. What do you do when they just aren't getting out of the park?

Just because you aren't playing small ball doesn't mean you're living and dying by the homerun. How about gettting hits? You know when you bunt someone over to 2nd, you still have to get a hit in order to get that run in.
 

jdoggivjc

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<div class="pre-quote">
Quote de <strong>tm3308</strong> </div> <div class="post-quote"> <div style="font-style:italic">And living and dying by the homerun is how teams choke in the playoffs. What do you do when they just aren't getting out of the park?Just because you aren't playing small ball doesn't mean you're living and dying by the homerun. How about gettting hits? You know when you bunt someone over to 2nd, you still have to get a hit in order to get that run in.</div> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="3" align="right"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" align="center"><a href="http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/" name="vB::QuickEdit::1873050"><img src="http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/images/buttons/edit.gif" alt="Edit/Delete Message" border="0"></a></td> <td valign="top" align="center"><a href="http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/pro-sports/99547-fredi-gonzalez-next-cubs-manager-3.html#" onclick="vbform.message.value = '
' + document.getElementById('post_message_1873050').innerHTML + '
\n\n';vbform.message.focus();return false;"><img align="right" border="0" src="http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/images/buttons/quote.gif"></a></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <br> </div>

And guess what? It's a hell of a lot easier to knock someone home when they're sitting on second than when they're standing on first. How do you do that? By bunting them over to second.
 

tm3308

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Yes, you can score a run and still waste outs. You could easily turn a big inning into a one run inning because you gave up an out to move a guy 90 ft.

You can also turn a 1-run inning into a no-run inning by thinking that bunting was beneath you. With your #3 hitter? Most often, no. If you're facing Ubaldo Jimenez, and he's got a 1-hit shutout going in the 7th, and you have a runner at second and no outs, and your #3 hitter comes up (he's also 2 for his last 13 AB's, and has looked foolish against Jimenez tonight), I'm certainly open to bunting. Getting a runner to third is crucial in a situation like that. With one out and a runner at 3rd, you don't even necessarily have to get a base hit. A ground out to the second basemen (going to his right) will score the run from third, while only moving him to 3rd with 2 outs if you hadn't moved him over with your #3 hitter.
 

CyJack13

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You can also turn a 1-run inning into a no-run inning by thinking that bunting was beneath you. With your #3 hitter? Most often, no. If you're facing Ubaldo Jimenez, and he's got a 1-hit shutout going in the 7th, and you have a runner at second and no outs, and your #3 hitter comes up (he's also 2 for his last 13 AB's, and has looked foolish against Jimenez tonight), I'm certainly open to bunting. Getting a runner to third is crucial in a situation like that. With one out and a runner at 3rd, you don't even necessarily have to get a base hit. A ground out to the second basemen (going to his right) will score the run from third, while only moving him to 3rd with 2 outs if you hadn't moved him over with your #3 hitter.

Well you'd be a terrible manager then. Bunting with your number three hitter to move a guy, who is already in scoring position, over is absolutely stupid. And yes that's one possible situation where you can score, but here's the more likely scenario, you give up an out to move the runner over. Your number four hitter strikes out, and your five hitter flies out. Inning over. Or you can let your third hitter, who's probably hitting third for a reason, swing away and he hits a two run shot and now instead of one run, you got two. That scenario is just as likely as yours.

There has been tons of statistical analysis done on how you actually decrease your chances of scoring by sacrifice bunting in almost every situation. Yes, there are times where it works out but more often than not, it doesn't.
 

Dave19642006

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Cubs will redo the roster, and the CUBS will have Ryno there in 2012. Ryno will help pick the players he wants, and they will get them and then the Cubs will be ok... not alright but ok....

2011 is just a doormat till 2012. If you expect anything different than this year, your smoking something
 

TheCaptain

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Ryno, Girardi, Brenly...I am 100% fine with any of the 3. But my gut tells me Hendry will hire someone else and continue to alienate the fanbase.
 

SpokaneCY

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Using a #3 hitter to bunt a guy from 2nd to 3rd? There had better be a very good reason for that. Otherwise you're just wasting someone who's likely the best hitter on your team. I mean, it's not like he's moving the guy into scoring position - he's already there, and I think he'd be better served trying to get the base hit to knock him home from second than just moving him over to 3rd.

Yes, I'm a Twins fan, a team that epitomizes "small ball". But even Gardy got into it earlier this year with Mauer when he laid down a bunt (yes, different situation - Mauer was going for straight base hit, but the point remains).

But Wrigley is a different kind of ballpark where the infield kills everything. And the dramatic lack of success in the early months would lead me to believe that waiting for the bats to warm up could take a backseat to manufacturing runs the old-fashioned way.
 

Neckbeard

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The Cubs are looking for a young developmental manager for the next hire. That leaves you Wedge, Sandberg, Quade, and Fredi Gonzalez. They also seem to place a value on big league experience which would seem to hurt Quade and Ryno. The Ricketts won't pay Girardi $5-6M per year to babysit a crappy team. Forget about him.

I don't believe that four seasons in the minors is preparation enough to run a big league club, even if you were a great player for that organization. If you like guys with minor league experience than I would get on the Quade bandwagon. He has a wealth of experience and has the Cubs, sans Ramirez, playing harder than Lou did. I wouldn't be opposed to Fredi or Wedge either.

Bunting with your three hitter is dumb in any and all situations. Managers that do this are over-managing.
 

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