For those freaking out about DL recruiting

[cyhiphopp]

Sorry, but no team goes 5 wide without one of them being a RB. The RB is needed because they can motion him back into the backfield to block if needed. Also, with Shontrelle and now Nealy, I think that we WANT them to catch balls out of the backfield, not sitting on the sideline on passing downs.

I also believe that TE will always have a place in this offense. Herman had it at Rice with Casey and now at ISU with Franklin. The TE gives you versatility in this offense. A good one can line up wide and go across the middle, block a DB on a bubble screen, attach to the formation and block a rush end or be a lead blocker for the RB. Do we have one like that this season? Probably not, but we have group of guys that can all do certain parts of it.

For WRs, yeah I was exaggerating with 6. But I DO think that 11 last year and 12 this year is overdoing it a little. I'd like to keep that number at 10. I'd bet that you could count on one hand the amount of times that ISU has lined up with 4 WRs on the field in the past two years. That may go up a little this season, but it won't be more than a handful of times.

The thing with the WRs this year is that a bunch of them are graduating this year or next. You have to be constantly refilling the ranks so they can develop enough to play significant minutes. Unfortunately it is rare at ISU when we get a WR to come in a contribute from day one. Then you have to account for attrition, and injuries. Having more than just a two-deep for each of the 3 main WR spots also allows the newcomers to redshirt and gain strength and skills for the future.

The only schools that come even close to having a max of 8 WRs (much less 6) are Army, Georgia Tech, and Navy, because they run the triple option most of the time.

 

[CyVik7]

I trust the coaches. Easy as that.

 

[Mr Janny]

Big XII teams and the number of players on their 2010 roster listed as wide receivers acoording to ESPN

Texas Tech -22
Baylor - 14
Kansas - 15
K-State - 15
Mizzou - 17
Oklahoma - 18
Oklahoma State - 22
Texas - 16
Texas A&M- 18
Iowa State - 18

 

[CloneIce]

I am glad he thinks so, but how many TEs does a team that runs the spread need?

I think that is why he said close to the right number. I am guessing he'd like to subtract off a QB or two, maybe a TE or WR, and add a couple more DL.

 

[trajanJ]

One popular thing to do is move athletic defensive ends that are capable of putting on some weight to defensive tackles.

 

[RCyclone]

You're telling me armchair coaches on message boards don't know more about recruiting than the coaching staff? Shocker

Or is it that he finally listened to us?

 

[CyValley]

Numbers comparison with Missouri

. . . I do think that they've gone a little overboard with WR numbers. Hopefully that means for the next class they don't have to sign very many.

Missouri is well-known for running a fine spread offense. I just checked the Tigers' 2010 football roster and discovered they roster the following numbers by position:

14 - Wide receivers
5 - Tight ends
7 - Defensive linemen, interior

The latter could be deceiving, because no distinction is made between DE and DL, all are listed as DL. Perhaps several of the lighter weight young guys are interior players. I just counted the guys who are Big 12 hand down DL size.

ISU's 2011 numbers (scholarship only):

13 - Wide receivers
4 - Tight ends
6 - Defensive linemen, interior

Eligibility-wise, from last fall's roster we lose one hand-down DL, Bailey Johnson.

IMHO, a terrific story here (lots of interest here, I'd think) would be an interview with Coach Shane Burnham. Ask him about his DL troops entering spring. Particularly, who will be working at those two hand-down slots? List 'em all so that we know who's in development as well as those we know about. What is Walter Woods's health status, following his surgery and rehab? Ideally, how many game-day players does he want? Four? Five? How many hand-down guys do they want to sign in the next class? And so on. . . .

 

[Frak]

The thing with the WRs this year is that a bunch of them are graduating this year or next. You have to be constantly refilling the ranks so they can develop enough to play significant minutes. Unfortunately it is rare at ISU when we get a WR to come in a contribute from day one. Then you have to account for attrition, and injuries. Having more than just a two-deep for each of the 3 main WR spots also allows the newcomers to redshirt and gain strength and skills for the future.

The only schools that come even close to having a max of 8 WRs (much less 6) are Army, Georgia Tech, and Navy, because they run the triple option most of the time.

I think that no one can look at teams' roster numbers and make any judgement because there are walk-ons involved. Also, GOOD WRs can play right away if your returnees aren't that good. Darks played as a true FR. At the very least, they play as a RSFR...like Blythe and Sumrall did. Like I said, 6 was an exaggeration. 10 seems like plenty.

 

[Frak]

Re: Numbers comparison with Missouri

Missouri is well-known for running a fine spread offense. I just checked the Tigers' 2010 football roster and discovered they roster the following numbers by position:

14 - Wide receivers
5 - Tight ends
7 - Defensive linemen, interior

The latter could be deceiving, because no distinction is made between DE and DL, all are listed as DL. Perhaps several of the lighter weight young guys are interior players. I just counted the guys who are Big 12 hand down DL size.

14 WRs...but you don't know how many are walk-ons.

 

[CyValley]

Re: Numbers comparison with Missouri

14 WRs...but you don't know how many are walk-ons.

I do not. I'll try to ask on the Missouri site, how many scholarship WR's are on the 2011 roster.

 

[CycloneErik]

I would like to trust the staff on this, but Stone Cold Steve Austin taught me not to trust anybody.

I just don't know who to believe.

 

[Sloup]

Our last game last year was a 14-0 shutout to Mizzou. They averaged 29.8 points a game, and their game against us was their season low. Forgive me while I express more concern for our offense than our defense, especially since our current "leading candidate" for the QB slot started that game.

 

[Wesley]

Looking at rivals star count one more time, KSU and ISU combined have as many two star commits as the other eight schools put together. The "coach em up staffs to make them into Big 12 football players" better be ready in the two towns. KU is on the rise. No easy games in conference for us. Just like in bball.

 

[StLouisClone]

CPR has signed a lot more WRs than DL over the last 3 years. He's also had a lot more turnover among the WRs than we have DL. Obviously the roster has a way of balancing out the numbers at each position over time. Guys are less likely to stay if they aren't moving up the depth chart, etc.

I don't think there is any doubt that the coaches would have liked to have signed more DL in 2011. I am excited about Irving though. Ruemp and McDonough are our only returning DTs with any experience. Our 2-deeps will be full of unheralded guys next year. It's already past time to start recruiting defensive linemen for the 2012 class. I agree with another poster that we should consider bringing in a Samoan coach. Let's get a pipeline going. I'm tired of turning on the TV and seeing a bunch of Samoans playing for MWC teams. Let's get them to come a little further east and play for a BCS team!!

 

[Frak]

Our last game last year was a 14-0 shutout to Mizzou. They averaged 29.8 points a game, and their game against us was their season low. Forgive me while I express more concern for our offense than our defense, especially since our current "leading candidate" for the QB slot started that game.

Somehow I doubt he's the leading candidate any more. I'd be shocked if Jantz wasn't the starter.

 

[brett108]

Our last game last year was a 14-0 shutout to Mizzou. They averaged 29.8 points a game, and their game against us was their season low. Forgive me while I express more concern for our offense than our defense, especially since our current "leading candidate" for the QB slot started that game.

Mizzou was the worst running team in the Big 12 last year. That accounts for our line holding up. What did Daniel Thomas do to us again? His 181 yards and two TDs were basically had running over our interior two.

Was the offense bad? Yes. But did we actually recruit some more offensive playmakers? We did.

Were our DTs bad? Yes. Did we land any DT? ....................

 

[Sloup]

@Frak, I used quotes on leading candidate because he's had the most experience on the field, not necessarily because I think Tiller will start.

Mizzou was the worst running team in the Big 12 last year. That accounts for our line holding up. What did Daniel Thomas do to us again? His 181 yards and two TDs were basically had running over our interior two.

Was the offense bad? Yes. But did we actually recruit some more offensive playmakers? We did.

Were our DTs bad? Yes. Did we land any DT? ....................

I realize that, but Wally and the defensive staff clearly know how to outscheme an opponent using what we have, and there was a clear trend towards improvement with the players we have now.

On the other hand, if on offense, we have a QB who is wildly inaccurate and receivers with butterfingers, you can draw up the most genius plays in the world, but the production won't happen as much as it could with better personnel. Herman hasn't shown he can make the offense work with what he had, and some of his top threats are now gone.

Could we use more talent on the line? Absolutely. But you can't win games if you can't score in the first place.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Mizzou was the worst running team in the Big 12 last year. That accounts for our line holding up. What did Daniel Thomas do to us again? His 181 yards and two TDs were basically had running over our interior two.

Was the offense bad? Yes. But did we actually recruit some more offensive playmakers? We did.

Were our DTs bad? Yes. Did we land any DT? ....................

SO you wanted us to just take some DTs even if they weren't Big 12 caliber?

 

[VeloClone]

SO you wanted us to just take some DTs even if they weren't Big 12 caliber?

Rhoads: It isn't the players you tried to get and couldn't that really hurt you. What really hurts are the players you get but don't pan out.

Translation: You are stuck with a scholly used up by someone who isn't contributing for 4 or 5 years. Better to not take anyone if you don't think they will contribute.

 

[bigcyfan82]

Coming directly from one of these guys: 6 guys who will play mostly at D-line next year:

Starting DE's: Latt, Nelson, Maggitt subbing in
Starting DL: Rump, McDounough, Black subbing in.