For Cowboy fans chirping about the spot on their final play

cymonw1980

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Nov 23, 2015
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When I watch the replay, what play should I focus on for this? Who has the ball? What play of what possession, what qtr.? I'm not sure I've ever noticed this before.
here is a link with the full game on youtube.

Timeout 1: 11:29 4th Qtr, (1:39:45 mark in video, explanation at 1:40:34)
Timeout 2: 5:29 4th Qtr (1:50:55 mark in video, explanation after)


Time Out 1 is taken at the 11:29 mark in the 4th qtr, this one you can't really see why the time out was called since they are zoomed in on Purdy, but they explain why ISU called the timeout when they get back from break - late sub by ISU allows Def to sub, since the def sub was taking too much time to get in position, ISU has to use a TO. If ISU has the right players from the start they don't have this issue (Time Out is taken at the 1:39:45 in the video link, good explanation of the Time Out at the 1:40:34 mark)

Time Out 2 is taken at the 5:29 mark in the 4th. This one you can see more clearly... Milton makes a catch, ISU is lining up, then decides to sub in Hutchinson late... Def is given the opportunity to sub, OSU subs, not enough time to get the play off, and they are forced to use a timeout. (You can see the whole thing starting at the 1:50:55 mark in the video link, shows Milton coming off, Hutch coming on, OSU sends a DL out late... again, after they come back from the timeout, they walk through what happened again).
 
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cymonw1980

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I don't blame Okie St fans for being upset, the way the play got called looked wrong. The officials needed to call out the penalty for dragging the player forward. That would have taken care of any debate on the subject. That's how it should have been called. If there wasn't a penalty, it looked like he got the first down to me, he was clearly on top of his teammate. The end result was correct, it should have been ISU ball but the refs botched things by not making it correctly.
I agree the initial spot looks like it was short of where it should have been marked. That said... the replay does not give you a clean view of the ball crossing the line to gain. On top of that, as you mention he was pulled forward by his teammate.

So, flag should have been thrown, spot was short, but replay cannot change the spot because there is not clear view of the ball crossing the line to gain. So, as the TV commentators said, replay can't really overturn it...
 
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t-noah

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here is a link with the full game on youtube.

Timeout 1: 11:29 4th Qtr, (1:39:45 mark in video, explanation at 1:40:34)
Timeout 2: 5:29 4th Qtr (1:50:55 mark in video, explanation after)


Time Out 1 is taken at the 11:29 mark in the 4th qtr, this one you can't really see why the time out was called since they are zoomed in on Purdy, but they explain why ISU called the timeout when they get back from break - late sub by ISU allows Def to sub, since the def sub was taking too much time to get in position, ISU has to use a TO. If ISU has the right players from the start they don't have this issue (Time Out is taken at the 1:39:45 in the video link, good explanation of the Time Out at the 1:40:34 mark)

Time Out 2 is taken at the 5:29 mark in the 4th. This one you can see more clearly... Milton makes a catch, ISU is lining up, then decides to sub in Hutchinson late... Def is given the opportunity to sub, OSU subs, not enough time to get the play off, and they are forced to use a timeout. (You can see the whole thing starting at the 1:50:55 mark in the video link, shows Milton coming off, Hutch coming on, OSU sends a DL out late... again, after they come back from the timeout, they walk through what happened again).
I love seeinghat last ISU drive tand saying it again! MILTON!!! at the 1:50:24 mark, and before that the throw by Purdy and catch be X Hutch at the 1:49:25 mark. Wow great football!

Your links did it for me. Thank you! I can see what you all are talking about. Yeah, that's a problem that will need to be corrected. This might be a good example (talking the time to set the offense, then having to burn a timeout) of overthinking things by Manning and Campbell. Then being outsmarted by Gundy. I guess that comes with experience.

Now if they keep doing this, then we will really have something more to talk about!
 

SayMyName

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Time Out 2 is taken at the 5:29 mark in the 4th. This one you can see more clearly... Milton makes a catch, ISU is lining up, then decides to sub in Hutchinson late... Def is given the opportunity to sub, OSU subs, not enough time to get the play off, and they are forced to use a timeout. (You can see the whole thing starting at the 1:50:55 mark in the video link, shows Milton coming off, Hutch coming on, OSU sends a DL out late... again, after they come back from the timeout, they walk through what happened again).
Here's the issue -- and this was already pointed out by another poster upthread: were they *really* trying to sub? Look at the video ... there are already 11 defensive players in position when the 12th guy trots onto the field. No one even budges to replace him!

This shouldn't be allowed, because if the ref hadn't prevented the snap we could have countered their bending of the substitution rule with a 12-man penalty. Either that, or flag the oaf for delay of game...
 

cymonw1980

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Here's the issue -- and this was already pointed out by another poster upthread: were they *really* trying to sub? Look at the video ... there are already 11 defensive players in position when the 12th guy trots onto the field. No one even budges to replace him!

This shouldn't be allowed, because if the ref hadn't prevented the snap we could have countered their bending of the substitution rule with a 12-man penalty. Either that, or flag the oaf for delay of game...
The issue is that the def is given the opportunity to sub... if they make an attempt (regardless of how poor that attempt is) the game is delayed. There was not enough time for them to sub and then let a defender get in position. Doesn't matter what OSU's intent is. The official is going to stop play and force you to wait. Given the amount of time on the play clock, OSU did not need to sub, they just needed to force the time out.

Is it gaming the rule? Sure. But it is legal and others will do the same if we decide to sub late. Get the right players on the field at the start of the play. Period. If not, you allow the defense the chance to force a timeout. Just can't happen.
 

BCClone

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I need to check the 12 men on the field penalty we got. Not questioning that part but OSU afterwards looked to send one guy in and two guys out. Meaning it was possibly 12v12.
 

AuH2O

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The issue is that the def is given the opportunity to sub... if they make an attempt (regardless of how poor that attempt is) the game is delayed. There was not enough time for them to sub and then let a defender get in position. Doesn't matter what OSU's intent is. The official is going to stop play and force you to wait. Given the amount of time on the play clock, OSU did not need to sub, they just needed to force the time out.

Is it gaming the rule? Sure. But it is legal and others will do the same if we decide to sub late. Get the right players on the field at the start of the play. Period. If not, you allow the defense the chance to force a timeout. Just can't happen.
Yeah, this isn't a brand new rule. You simply have to know you can't substitute late in the play clock. I would like to see it formalized. Something like no offensive substitutions are allowed once the play clock hits 15 seconds, then the snap can be help up for up to 10 seconds if the defense wants to substitute.

I don't like the subjectivity in the rule now. But either way, they know the rule and how teams play this.
 
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