First day for Freshman - Strength and Conditioning

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Mesaclone1

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Its obviously WAY too early to make any judgements about this recruiting class...but it sure as hell SEEMS like this coaching staff has managed to bring in a LOT of guys that are "hidden gems". This tells me that they are DAMN good at player evaluation...and that they take "calculated" risks on guys that have high level talent but perhaps are borderline with grades or other aspects. In other words, BIG kudos to the coaching staff for this recruiting class.

Future STARS from this group who were "under the radar" kinds of guys:
Irving
Miller
Pompey
Omoile
Lemke
Standard
Smith
Daniels
Lampkin
Bundrage
Horne
Ecby

That's 11 guys who may well turn out to be GREAT players at ISU...but were not heavily recruited by the top level BCS schools. All of them seem to have "top level" ability however...and THAT is real credit to our coaches.

Please note...that list doesn't include the more "heralded" guys like Richardson, Lynn and Nealy...who also have such talent but were not really under the radar.

Finally, there's a number of more blue collar type kids who will likely RS...pay their dues for a couple years and then look to be major contributors as well. So it seems like we have a class full of guys who fit the Rhoad's mantra of not bringing in anyone who won't contribute.

The future is VERY bright for ISU football. Very bright, indeed.
 

heitclone

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While I think people are jumping to conclusions about some of these guys based on what they can do physically(mainly Irving), it is obvious that this staff is bringing in a different type of athlete that we're used to at ISU. It may mean some are "projects" but recruiting at ISU isn't easy and player development is even more important than at the big schools, I really like this years class and think it in a few years it could have a big role in turning this program around.

FWIW Standard wasn't an under the radar guy, he had big offers and was a flat out stud in high school. I've been excited about him since he committed.
 

theyork

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Its obviously WAY too early to make any judgements about this recruiting class...but it sure as hell SEEMS like this coaching staff has managed to bring in a LOT of guys that are "hidden gems". This tells me that they are DAMN good at player evaluation...and that they take "calculated" risks on guys that have high level talent but perhaps are borderline with grades or other aspects. In other words, BIG kudos to the coaching staff for this recruiting class.


you're right, it is way to early to make predictions about this class. problem with your assessment of there being a lot of "hidden gems" in this class is that you could say (and people always have) that about every class ISU has ever had. we have never had a high profile class so we are forced to hope that there are a lot of gems. will there be? sure, but i doubt any more hidden gems come from this class than any other. its not very often a KO or JK comes along.
 

Tedcyclone

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david is over 6'4" and he will be just fine... Berryman was lighter as a freshman and dominated the BIG12 the following year... Dominated is putting it lightly. He made every team avoid one side of the field.
 

xboxfever

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Its obviously WAY too early to make any judgements about this recruiting class...but it sure as hell SEEMS like this coaching staff has managed to bring in a LOT of guys that are "hidden gems". This tells me that they are DAMN good at player evaluation...and that they take "calculated" risks on guys that have high level talent but perhaps are borderline with grades or other aspects. In other words, BIG kudos to the coaching staff for this recruiting class.

Future STARS from this group who were "under the radar" kinds of guys:

You do realize people say that about EVERY ISU class right? Every year ISU supposedly has all these hidden gems. ISU doesn't have the money to recruit the best of the best so they are forced to take risks. Sometimes it pays off (KO, Knott, Lamaak, Stephens, Dobbins, etc), but most of the time it doesn't.
 

Aclone

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You do realize people say that about EVERY ISU class right? Every year ISU supposedly has all these hidden gems. ISU doesn't have the money to recruit the best of the best so they are forced to take risks. Sometimes it pays off (KO, Knott, Lamaak, Stephens, Dobbins, etc), but most of the time it doesn't.
Does it really matter if we take note of a couple of athletic players? Would you pardon us if we start to get a little excited about our Cyclones?

I have gotten excited about a few Cyclone freshmen over the years. Danny Harris was one of them. That didn't work out like I expected. Keith Sims was another. That one did. Then there were others who were surprises. Dennis Gibson was one of those.

So, there are bright spots, and, if you could possibly excuse us, in a slow period for CF, I guess that we will talk about a glint of something special that some of us cheerfully hope might possibly emerge in our incoming freshmen.
 

heitclone

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Mentioning Irving in the same sentence as Berryman is just unfair to the kid. Berryman was a first round draft pick, this kid hasn't stepped on the field yet and really the only comparison we know so far between them is that they play the same position.
 
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Rhoadhoused

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Mentioning Irving in the same sentence as Berryman is just unfair to the kid. Berryman was a first round draft pick, this kid hasn't stepped on the field yet and really the only comparison we know so far between them is that they play the same position.

???

I'm going to assume you meant first round draft pick talent because he went undrafted.
 

clonedude

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Any comparison between Irving and Berryman at this point are just plain stupid. Give the kid a break. Let's not turn David Irving into the next Bo Williams.... PLEASE!

I agree that Irving has all the "potential" in the world, but potential is nothing until it turns into something valuable. Irving is a project folks. Yes, he's an athletic tall kid, but he has a LOT to learn fundamentally and still has a lot of strength to gain. I would be SHOCKED if he isn't RS this year. In fact, I'd put his chance of RS at 99%.

I think we should all want him to be RS. It will only make him that much better. I wish Knott and Klein had been able to RS their first season here instead of just playing on special teams. They'd both be sophs right now instead of juniors... how awesome would that be!

One sign of becoming a good football program is that you start seeing less and less true freshmen playing at all. If you have good football players and some depth already on the team, then freshmen should be RS unless they are just plain freaks.

But please give David Irving a chance. Don't put too many expectations on him too early. If he was all-world, he would have had a ton of offers. Truth is, he's going to need some time to learn how to play DE at the Big 12 level IMO... and to build up his strength. He looks VERY raw in his videos. His technique is not the best yet. Give him time.
 

Aclone

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Any comparison between Irving and Berryman at this point are just plain stupid.
Correction. Thinking that anyone was comparing Irving to Berryman is just plain stupid.

All that people were saying was that Berryman didn't need to put on a bunch of muscle, or learn lots of technique to contribute as a freshman. Therefore, DI may be able to contribute as well. MAY.

No comparisons involved whatsoever.

Second point--quite frankly, Knott and Klein didn't have to play special teams as freshmen. There were plenty of players who could have played ST. CPR thought they would benefit from it. Perhaps they might not have been quite the players that they were without that experience, both on the field and off. So I'm not going to second guess.
 

Rhoadhoused

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Correction. Thinking that anyone was comparing Irving to Berryman is just plain stupid.

All that people were saying was that Berryman didn't need to put on a bunch of muscle, or learn lots of technique to contribute as a freshman. Therefore, DI may be able to contribute as well. MAY.

No comparisons involved whatsoever.

Second point--quite frankly, Knott and Klein didn't have to play special teams as freshmen. There were plenty of players who could have played ST. CPR thought they would benefit from it. Perhaps they might not have been quite the players that they were without that experience, both on the field and off. So I'm not going to second guess.

Great post. Everything in it is true.
 

RustShack

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I do agree that Irving could be redshirted. He has the ability to be a star, and he even has the size right now to play for us. But he would benefit big time from a year learning from Wally. On that token though, I feel so strongly about this kid that I wouldn't be shocked if he left school early... in which case I don't think it would hurt for him to see some live competition right away. He has all the size and talent to play now, but he hasn't been coached up enough yet and needs to get the mental part and technique first.
 

clonedude

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I do agree that Irving could be redshirted. He has the ability to be a star, and he even has the size right now to play for us. But he would benefit big time from a year learning from Wally. On that token though, I feel so strongly about this kid that I wouldn't be shocked if he left school early... in which case I don't think it would hurt for him to see some live competition right away. He has all the size and talent to play now, but he hasn't been coached up enough yet and needs to get the mental part and technique first.

What in the world are you talking about? Seriously. The kid just arrived on campus, and you're already talking about him leaving school early to do what... play in the NFL? Are you kidding me?

I'm as excited as anyone about David's "potential" at ISU. But my goodness, it's like you think he's already the next coming of Reggie White or something. Get a grip on reality folks.

David Irving was a TWO STAR recruit that had other offers from Colorado State and Nevada! He wasn't even a two star recruit until we offered him. He hasn't even been playing football very long. He's VERY raw right now. Could he eventually be a player for us.... yes. But PLEASE do not put super high expectations on the young man that he could never possibly live up to.

I think the coaches are high on him because he has all the measurables you're looking for. He has length and athleticism. That stuff can't be taught. But the coaches also realize he has a lot to learn fundamentally, and he has a lot of strength to build up as well.

When we signed Rony Nelson everyone was talking him up like he was just a total freak, and now it's doubtful if he can even start or make the two deeps? And Rony Nelson is much more ready physically than David Irving... by FAR.

Ask guys like Patrick Neal, Roosevelt Maggitt, or Lattimer how hard it is to become a Big 12 DE. It's taken these guys years of development, learning, and strength training to get where they are right now. And these guys were rated higher than Irving coming out of HS.

I hope David comes in and shocks me and proves me wrong, but guys like Jason Berryman are the exception, not the rule. Berryman was a highly rated 3 star player that we had to convince to come to Ames over going to Arizona. I know ratings aren't everything, but Berryman already had the skills necessary to play.

Like I said, I hope I'm completely wrong, but one thing I will NOT do is to put such high expectations on this young man that he can never live up to. He hasn't played one single down even in practice at the Big 12 level and you already have him leaving school early to go to the NFL. C'mon... you're smarter than that!

Like someone mentioned earlier that saw David in person... "he looks more like a basketball player right now than a football player". That should tell you something.
 
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Rural

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I personally feel that "first round draft choice" and "undrafted" aren't really that far apart.:pconfused:
 

Yes13

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What in the world are you talking about? Seriously. The kid just arrived on campus, and you're already talking about him leaving school early to do what... play in the NFL? Are you kidding me?

I'm as excited as anyone about David's "potential" at ISU. But my goodness, it's like you think he's already the next coming of Reggie White or something. Get a grip on reality folks.

David Irving was a TWO STAR recruit that had other offers from Colorado State and Nevada! He wasn't even a two star recruit until we offered him. He hasn't even been playing football very long. He's VERY raw right now. Could he eventually be a player for us.... yes. But PLEASE do not put super high expectations on the young man that he could never possibly live up to.

I think the coaches are high on him because he has all the measurables you're looking for. He has length and athleticism. That stuff can't be taught. But the coaches also realize he has a lot to learn fundamentally, and he has a lot of strength to build up as well.

When we signed Rony Nelson everyone was talking him up like he was just a total freak, and now it's doubtful if he can even start or make the two deeps? And Rony Nelson is much more ready physically than David Irving... by FAR.

Ask guys like Patrick Neal, Roosevelt Maggitt, or Lattimer how hard it is to become a Big 12 DE. It's taken these guys years of development, learning, and strength training to get where they are right now. And these guys were rated higher than Irving coming out of HS.

I hope David comes in and shocks me and proves me wrong, but guys like Jason Berryman are the exception, not the rule. Berryman was a highly rated 3 star player that we had to convince to come to Ames over going to Arizona. I know ratings aren't everything, but Berryman already had the skills necessary to play.

Like I said, I hope I'm completely wrong, but one thing I will NOT do is to put such high expectations on this young man that he can never live up to. He hasn't played one single down even in practice at the Big 12 level and you already have him leaving school early to go to the NFL. C'mon... you're smarter than that!

Like someone mentioned earlier that saw David in person... "he looks more like a basketball player right now than a football player". That should tell you something.
See, you recognize his potential :)rolleyes:), the guy you ripped on just took it to the next step and said if he played to his potential he'd be going pro early.

I'd wager to say Irving is better than Neal right now. Neal doesn't give us speed or size, he's not a pass rusher and he's not a run stopper. Irving is atleast big enough to knock down passes.
 

CyValley

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Today, right now, at this moment, as he begins his college career, David Irving is 17 years old. Seems to me it might be important to take note of that fact.

He'll turn 18 on August 18. When does fall camp begin? I'd guess he'll enter fall camp as a 17-year-old, too.

Like every Cyclone rookie, David will do what he will do on the field when he does it. I'm content to wait until he does it, whenever that might be. What other choice does a fan have, other than speculate well beyond his means to know an eventual outcome?

David has mentioned that Jack Trice (the person, not the stadium) was an important motivation behind his selection of Iowa State. For me, that makes him a roster favorite. For David's sake (and ours, secondly), I hope that he has a satisfying ISU career, academically and athletically.

Only 17 years old. Wow.

(Just checked, linebacker Donald Smith, August 1, and offensive lineman Oni Omoile, June 24, are both 17, too. But, Irving is the youngest kid of all the recruits.)
 
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dualthreat

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This thread is chock full of stupid.

apparently you need to do some more research. iowa state has had a long and rich histroy of recruiting under the radar, 2-star hidden gems and turning them into NFL prospects before they have time to graduate.

:rolleyes:
 

clonedude

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apparently you need to do some more research. iowa state has had a long and rich histroy of recruiting under the radar, 2-star hidden gems and turning them into NFL prospects before they have time to graduate.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, but speculating ahead of time which guys will do this is just dumb. It's a crapshoot.