ESPN has Elgin Cook ranked 78th now

[BryceC]

Close pretty much all the way with next to no excitement.

Huh, and here I was thinking that close games ARE exciting because they are close all the way.

Good point. Screw the shot clock. I want some 12-14 barn burners so we know they are close the whole way.

If tempo was not a factor then people wouldn't have made such a big deal out of th Suns a few years ago. Yes, they won, but they also won playing a fun style of ball. To say that has no effect is just ignoring stuff.

Obviously winning trumps everything. However if you're going to watch two teams finish with the same record, I'd rather watch 80s UNLV or Butler 2009? I'd rather watch 80s UNLV and 99% of casual fans will say the same thing.

 

[cycloneG]

Good point. Screw the shot clock. I want some 12-14 barn burners so we know they are close the whole way.

If tempo was not a factor then people wouldn't have made such a big deal out of th Suns a few years ago. Yes, they won, but they also won playing a fun style of ball. To say that has no effect is just ignoring stuff.

Obviously winning trumps everything. However if you're going to watch two teams finish with the same record, I'd rather watch 80s UNLV or Butler 2009? I'd rather watch 80s UNLV and 99% of casual fans will say the same thing.

I wish I had your psychic abilities. :wink:

 

[delt4cy]

I'm going to try and catch a few local games this year and watch Elgin.

An interesting note, many of the talented local prospects went the prep school route this year. Elgin is one of the few D1 prospects that stuck around Milwaukee for the coming year. (good thing, imo it means he's set on ISU and not looking to attract bigger offers)

 

[FDCy83]

Wish we could jump ahead to 2011!!

But that would mean missing the next 12 Cyclone football games and ending up in January, 2011, wishing spring football would get here soon.

 

[JVAR]

I'm going to try and catch a few local games this year and watch Elgin.

An interesting note, many of the talented local prospects went the prep school route this year. Elgin is one of the few D1 prospects that stuck around Milwaukee for the coming year. (good thing, imo it means he's set on ISU and not looking to attract bigger offers)

I noticed several of them went to a prep school in WV, such as Phillip Nolan. I was hoping to nab him but that probably throws Thuggy Bear from WV into the mix. He is a good recruiter.

 

[cjclone]

Duke-Butler was a horrible game. Close pretty much all the way with next to no excitement. The only way for it to have been memorable was to have Butler's half-court heave, go in.

Last year's NCAA tournament in general=YUCK

Attendance for that crap will continue downward.

You must not have been at that game then. The fans there thought it was exciting.

 

[Cydkar]

You must not have been at that game then. The fans there thought it was exciting.

Like I said, it was exciting because of who was playing and what was at stake. Remove the names from the jerseys and the national championship stage and it was a brutal game to watch.

If that was a conference game between Iowa and Wisconsin we'd be making fun of them.

 

[cjclone]

Like I said, it was exciting because of who was playing and what was at stake. Remove the names from the jerseys and the national championship stage and it was a brutal game to watch.

If that was a conference game between Iowa and Wisconsin we'd be making fun of them.

Maybe,
Iowa basketball started filling the seats when Lute Olson brought in the four corners offense which was really boring, yet they won and fans turned out in droves. Same thing with Dean Smith and his four corners. They brought the shot clock in to liven up the game and increase scoring (most people here probably don't even remember the 40 second line and no I am not old enough to remember when they had a jump ball after every made basket), then the defense became more physical and scoring went down so they added the three point shot. It is amazing to me that around the world people love football (soccer) with only a few goals per game and the same for hockey (there, they go for the fights too).

 

[Cyforce]

20 game home winning streaks are exciting regardless of the style. Hilton will be a madhouse again if they can make this the home court advantage it once was.

 

[Rural]

Modern "coaching" has taken the 3 pt. shot and shot clock ideas and found a way to slow the games to a crawl. The college game, as currently played, has the same appeal as roller derby or pro wrestling.

 

[Chitowncy]

Modern "coaching" has taken the 3 pt. shot and shot clock ideas and found a way to slow the games to a crawl. The college game, as currently played, has the same appeal as roller derby or pro wrestling.

I agree with you that I would rather watch up-tempo basketball with exciting plays and lots of points scored than the lower scoring slugfests we're seeing more-and-more in college.

However, even though some coaches have definitely made the game harder to watch and less enjoyable (Frank Martin, Huggins, Ben Howland, even Coach K a little bit with their emphasis on in your face defense), I think the biggest fault lies in how closely the games are called. The refs by-and-large just let the players bang and hack, hand-check and ride, all the way to the hoop (and off the ball too).

It's a different game then the finesse game played in the '70s when college teams scored a lot more points. The players aren't worse, it's just that the game has evolved to permitting more physical play.

I'm sure some of you guys on here have tried to shoot with someone hanging on your arm or bumping you off the ball. It's a lot harder. As someone who played small college (D III) ball before transfering from ISU, I believe the refs need to call closer games if we want the quality of play to improve. I, for one, don't go to basketball games hoping that a rugby match will break out.

 

[Cydkar]

Maybe,
Iowa basketball started filling the seats when Lute Olson brought in the four corners offense which was really boring, yet they won and fans turned out in droves. Same thing with Dean Smith and his four corners. They brought the shot clock in to liven up the game and increase scoring (most people here probably don't even remember the 40 second line and no I am not old enough to remember when they had a jump ball after every made basket), then the defense became more physical and scoring went down so they added the three point shot. It is amazing to me that around the world people love football (soccer) with only a few goals per game and the same for hockey (there, they go for the fights too).

Using circa 1980 basketball as an example isn't very convincing. inho.

 

[cjclone]

Using circa 1980 basketball as an example isn't very convincing. inho.

INHO Independence Holding Company?:smile:


I was just using a local example. The same thing applies whenever a school starts winning, it is related more to the winning than the style, more modern examples are Florida, Tennessee, West Virginia, etc. It seems there is a strong correlation between winning and attendance, style relates more to overall attendance in a sport than for an individual school. Popularity of different sports waxes and wanes due to personalities involved, drama, marketing, etc.

 

[cykadelic2]

I think the biggest fault lies in how closely the games are called. The refs by-and-large just let the players bang and hack, hand-check and ride, all the way to the hoop (and off the ball too).

It's a different game then the finesse game played in the '70s when college teams scored a lot more points. The players aren't worse, it's just that the game has evolved to permitting more physical play.

Totally agree with you. The college game needs to enforce the no hand-check rule on the perimeter like the NBA started to do 5-6 years ago. It made the NBA game much better to watch and enabled higher scoring.

Another thing that has negatively affected scoring is video scouting which didn't exist in the late 60s and early 70s. Teams now know everyone's plays and can extensively practice to stop them.

 

[BryceC]

I was just using a local example. The same thing applies whenever a school starts winning, it is related more to the winning than the style, more modern examples are Florida, Tennessee, West Virginia, etc. It seems there is a strong correlation between winning and attendance, style relates more to overall attendance in a sport than for an individual school. Popularity of different sports waxes and wanes due to personalities involved, drama, marketing, etc.

I agree with you, especially at the college level. People go to games because they like the school and they like to see teams win most of the time. However style cannot be discounted. My parents for example loved ISU ball under Orr even when we lost. They really didn't get into the Floyd/Eustachy era, but they aren't huge fans. Style may not be a huge factor but it does exist.

 

[bfross]

Didn't know that Cook was the son of former NBA player Alvin Robertson. Good to have those genes. Bad to have that role model. Easy to see where Elgin gets his athletic ability.