Don't people get it?

[cyco2000]

You're right, Johnny was forced out of his job coaching a bunch of seniors that he dearly wanted to coach for their final season, so that his successor would be playing with a loaded deck.

Floyd followed that up by signing a nice collection of reasonably athletic odds and ends that he molded into a good team. He was recruiting to a program that was clean and stable, hadn't been rocked by the effects of a previous coach's alcoholism, or had most of the team leave because a favorite coach was fired.

You are correct. There is no comparison.

Now, why didn't those players just leave and play elsewhere? Did anyone talk them into staying?

 

[jahfg]

Now, why didn't those players just leave and play elsewhere? Did anyone talk them into staying?

Times have changed. D-1 athletes are a different beast these days and boards like these are a part of the reason.

 

[cyco2000]

Times have changed. D-1 athletes are a different beast these days and boards like these are a part of the reason.

Gotcha--the players didn't want to play for McD because of CycloneFanatic.

 

[LindenCy]

Tim Floyd did not take over a 14-13 team. Keep in Mind Loren Meyer was hurt for the conference season that year. Floyd did not take over the same team, he took over a team that had the ADDITION of Loren Meyer. Not a big deal, just thought I would point that out.

See the previous few pages.

 

[Aclone]

Now, why didn't those players just leave and play elsewhere? Did anyone talk them into staying?

Because they were seniors-to-be, who, unlike Blalock and Stinson, didn't have the illusion of a early-entry NBA career to pull them away, and not underclassmen (like Carr, Taggart, Degand, etc) who could transfer elsewhere without doubling the time to their impending graduation.

Thanks for pitching me fastballs. :notworthy:

 

[Drive4cy]

3/4?

Let's see. A twelve man recruited scholarship roster makes it easy.

1. Brackins: Must be one of your three.
2. Garrett: Ditto.
3. Vanderbeken. Obviously you saw that dunk yesterday, one of your three.
4. Justin Hamilton: Wait, does Justin count as 1/3 of a player?
5. Charles Boozer: He's starting to look good, so I think we're starting to stretch your "3/4 of the roster" thing.
6. Lucca: I'm pretty sure he's "capable", and will just keep getting better. Lucca makes "half of the roster".
7. L.A. Pomlee: By all accounts an excellent athlete, currently redshirting.
8. Scott Christopherson: The jury seems out as a transfer redshirt, but he also appears to have all the tools to be a competent Big XII player.
9. Wes Eikmeier: When he committed, even when he signed, I don't think anyone expected Wes to be an immediate contributor. Well, there were exceptions on this board. Still, in a year or two, I'm quite sure he'll be a Big XII player.
10. Dominique Buckley: He's still getting his feet wet, but in limited action looks like he'll be "capable".
11. Alex Thompson: Alex has his moments, and has been a good role player at times.
12. Clinton Mann: Ya got me on this one--but he's still a freshman.

In case you were wondering, I left off Petey and Sean Haluska, because both were recruited to be walkons. I was also doing you a favor, because both (Sean last season) have proven that they're capable of playing in the Big XII--if not necessarily dominating or excelling. I also didn't toss in that the "shouldabeen" 13th player, Wesley Johnson, was decidedly "capable".

So I'm kinda thinking that your initial assumption doesn't stand up. Maybe if you had said "half the roster", or "capable of excelling", well then you might have had an argument. As it is...not so much.

Well, I didn't want to go through every player or call anyone out, but since you did, I'll give my opinion on each player.

1. Brackins: Great player. Definitely worthy.
2. Garrett: I'm one of the bigger DG fans here. He's a Big 12 player.
3. Vanderbeken: Good JUCO pick-up. Solid Big 12 reserve.
4. Hamilton: Jury is still out whether he's Big 12 material RIGHT NOW IMO. He has upside and down the road will be.
5. Boozer: Good shooter, like his size, nothing more than a 10th man in the Big 12.
6. Lucca: The last 3 weeks he's been brutal. The guy can't do anything. Is he still hurt or what? Right now he's not even close to Big 12 caliber. Certainly not a starter.
7. Pomlee: Never seen the court. Won't judge the young man, but if McDermott doesn't think he was good enough to help this year, that's troubling.
8. Christopherson: Like you said, no idea. He did nothing at his previous stop.
9. Eikmeier: Not even close to Big 12 caliber at the moment.
10. Buckley: As a team our guards are below average and he barely plays. He's a freshman so I won't ride him off but I've been underwhelmed by him.
11. Thompson: Not even close to a Big 12 player.
12. Peterson: Not even close to a Big 12 player.
13. Mann: Not sure what his deal is, but tough to call him a Big 12 player when he can't sniff minutes for us right now.
14. Haluska: Not a Big 12 player.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So by my count, we have 3 Big 12 caliber guys for sure in Brackins, DG, and JVB. Three more guys in Hamilton, Lucca & Boozer who are end of bench guys in the Big 12, but Big 12 nevertheless. Then we have five guys, who for sure aren't sniffing Big 12 level in BP, Mann, Haluska, Eikmeier, and Thompson. Finally, we have the "jury is still out" guys in Buckley, Pomlee, and Christopherson.

So you are correct, Aclone. 3/4 was a little high but it's not far off. Either way you slice it, we need more talent ASAP. If Brackins stays another year and with our additions for next year, we'll have a chance. I've never said I wanted McDermott fired BTW, but I'm tired of the excuses. He needs to fix this mess.

 

[cyco2000]

Because they were seniors-to-be, who, unlike Blalock and Stinson, didn't have the illusion of a early-entry NBA career to pull them away, and not underclassmen (like Carr, Taggart, Degand, etc) who could transfer elsewhere without doubling the time to their impending graduation.

Thanks for pitching me fastballs. :notworthy:

Meyer and Hoiberg weren't NBA material?

 

[WalkingCY]

Greg is in his 3rd year, not first. Why is it that 3/4 of the current roster is filled with guys not capable of playing at the Big 12 level? How many years should we give him to recruit capable players? We've nosedived from his first year to now. It's entirely possible we will go 2-14 in the Big 12. In his third year. Capel didn't walk into a great situation at Oklahoma, Mike Anderson sure didn't at Missouri, Drew walked into a disaster at Baylor, K-State has been down for several years and has a high school coach getting it done without Beasley & Walker. Nebraska has zero tradition, no NCAA wins, etc. I don't think Sadler walked into a great situation in Lincoln. These guys all turned around their programs right under our noses. Let's not make our situation seem worse than it really was. There is NO excuse to be as bad as we are today.

And we're the ones who "don't get it." Right....

Totally agree here. Our coach is a poor one.

 

[everyyard]

Johnny Orr's record:
YearRecord1980-1981 9-18, 1981-1982 10-17, 1982-1983 13-15, 1983-1984 16-13, 1984-1985 21-13, 1985-1986 22-11, 1986-1987 13-15, 1987-1988 20-12, 1988-1989 17-12, 1989-1990 10-18, 1990-1991 12-19, 1991-1992 21-13, 1992-1993 20-11, 1993-1994 14-13

It takes time, people need to cool it! Judge when our leaders are at least Juniors and Seniors.....

Eustachy's
1998-1999 15-15, 1999-2000 32-5, 2000-2001 25-6, 2001-2002 12-19, 2002-2003 17-14

Best seasons where with his player's being Juniors and Seniors, Same with Floyd's:

1994-1995 23-11, 1995-1996 24-9, 1996-1997 22-9, 1997-1998 12-18

Can you see the theme of having a very young team? Don't give me the Petey, Haluska, Thompson stuff either.

All these coaches had trouble when their teams were young, we have a very young team. The people with experience are only in their second year on a Big 12 court. Be patient, coach McD will win.

Larry.
Year 2: cut the nets.
Year 3: cut the nets.
just saying.

 

[IcSyU]

Larry.
Year 2: cut the nets.
Year 3: cut the nets.
just saying.

With 2 All-Americans. Below .500 without them. Anybody on this board could have coached those teams.

 

[Cyphor]

There were rocky time before McD took over.

As in winning records, post season appearances/victories and reasons to watch ISU basketball...ouch tough times. Thankfully things are going so much better now.

 

[kingcy]

As in winning records, post season appearances/victories and reasons to watch ISU basketball...ouch tough times. Thankfully things are going so much better now.

Players leaving, questionable adminstration issues, players being allowed to do what they want. People remember the good wins, they forget the bad losses under Morgan.

 

[CrossCyed]

Players leaving, questionable adminstration issues, players being allowed to do what they want. People remember the good wins, they forget the bad losses under Morgan.

True, but I don't think we had one loss under Morgan on par with SDSU or Hawai'i.....just in terms of how bad the teams we lost to were.

 

[kingcy]

True, but I don't think we had one loss under Morgan on par with SDSU or Hawai'i.....just in terms of how bad the teams we lost to were.

Iona, Fresno St, San Degio st

 

[jumbopackage]

There was no place for idiots to post their uninformed and emotional opinions in 1980.

 

[CrossCyed]

Iona, Fresno St, San Degio st

Iona made the NCAA tournament that year.

The other two......they're pretty bad losses, but still not on par.

 

[Icky_Mettle]

Iona, Fresno St, San Degio st

Iona was 23-7 and went to the NCAA tournament. Fresno State had a RPI of 124, SDSU had a RPI of 117. I'm not saying they were good teams but Colorado, Hawaii, and South Dakota State are all in the 200+ RPI range, they are pure rubbish. Since 99 ISU has lost to 6 teams with a 200+ RPI, 4 of them have happened under McD.

 

[jahfg]

Gotcha--the players didn't want to play for McD because of CycloneFanatic.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.:mask: