Do you want Tom Manning as the OC?

  • Fanatics -

    Thank you for your patience today and welcome to the newest version of Cyclone Fanatic!

    Most of the changes we have made are very simple, but will greatly improve your user experience while visiting the website.

    We have upgraded our forum software to speed things up. Our homepage is much cleaner and should be even more mobile friendly than before.

    We appreciate your loyalty and are committed to not only keeping Cyclone Fanatic in tip-top shape, but continuing to build this community for the next decade and beyond.

    We ask that if you are experiences any glitches to let us know in this thread . Will will be diligently working on the site all day.

    Thanks again.

    Chris Williams - Publisher

Do you want Tom Manning as OC?

  • Yes

    Votes: 169 70.7%
  • No

    Votes: 70 29.3%

  • Total voters
    239

cyfanatic13

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 19, 2008
8,443
4,464
113
Not sure if this has been mentioned in here and I'm not gonna read the whole thread, but Manning is not alone in calling plays. Campbell and other offensive coaches have a ton of input. Dumb thread
 

heitclone

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jun 21, 2009
11,444
6,339
113
41
Way up there
I'm not sure if this is on Manning, Brock or a problem with that position but where are our WR's? I think they had like 1 or 2 catches in the first half. We really miss Milton but on paper it seems like we have guys who should be ready to play by now. Is it routes? Playcalls? lack of talent? I think part of Brock's up and downs this season has been that he's tried to do a little too much. Crazy how many throws he makes where the receiver has a guy on his back. Seems like very few of our catches are clean.

That is why I really liked the two plays they ran with Lang, need to change things up and get our guys in space. Hutchinson is the only WR who has made plays after the catch and those are mostly because he's too big and strong for a DB to tackle 1 on 1. Even he isn't getting a ton of space.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: khardbored

CyCloned

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2006
11,672
5,102
113
Robins, Iowa
I can never tell from the TV...on Purdy's long throws that get picked, has ISU's receiver been open?

I can just never tell if the receiver at least got behind the secondary and just had to come back to the ball.
On the pick 6 and the one intercepted by the guy with a club on (that in itself is embarrassing) both guys were open by quite a bit and Purdy just couldn't get the ball there. On the first one I guy got through and messed up Purdy's timing. He probably should have just tucked that one and taken the 5 yards that was there. On the Interception pass to Allen he must have been expecting him to go out wider or something. It was a bad choice no matter what because it was a 2 yard pass and 3rd and 5. Good thing Kene was in the game to run the DB down.

You do make a good point though about receivers coming back to the ball. Butler was alway making great plays on underthrown passes. The new guys, not so much.
 

Frak

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Apr 27, 2009
8,047
2,039
113
One thing I'll say about the offense...Baylor used the same DL shift that WSU used in the Alamo Bowl. That caused us all kinds of problems. Saturday there were no false starts until really late. I'd say that was a nice improvement.
 

JM4CY

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2012
9,598
15,364
113
America
One thing I'll say about the offense...Baylor used the same DL shift that WSU used in the Alamo Bowl. That caused us all kinds of problems. Saturday there were no false starts until really late. I'd say that was a nice improvement.
This hasn’t been talked about enough. They did clean up a lot of the pre-snap crap that had a been a problem.
 

CycloneVet

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2011
5,399
4,480
113
Cedar Falls
Jfc I have waited a lot of years for this season. We aren’t talking about playing for the Big 12 North title where we would get waxed in the championship game we are talking about winning the whole damn thing and some people are fixated with replacing the OC who has done a good job with the talent level. How many 1st rounders are on this team? Possibly zero. Kolar maybe. A couple of second rounders eventually but they are too young to know for sure.
Oh btw have some of considered the financial ramifications of having to fire and hire another OC that is better than Tom Manning?
 

BryceC

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 23, 2006
20,400
8,657
113
Jfc I have waited a lot of years for this season. We aren’t talking about playing for the Big 12 North title where we would get waxed in the championship game we are talking about winning the whole damn thing and some people are fixated with replacing the OC who has done a good job with the talent level. How many 1st rounders are on this team? Possibly zero. Kolar maybe. A couple of second rounders eventually but they are too young to know for sure.
Oh btw have some of considered the financial ramifications of having to fire and hire another OC that is better than Tom Manning?
In a normal season losing multiple OL and multiple WR's to injury absolutely would have buried us. We're not as good as we have been but we're chugging along scoring plenty of points. Nothing is perfect. Nothing.
 

JM4CY

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2012
9,598
15,364
113
America
Jfc I have waited a lot of years for this season. We aren’t talking about playing for the Big 12 North title where we would get waxed in the championship game we are talking about winning the whole damn thing and some people are fixated with replacing the OC who has done a good job with the talent level. How many 1st rounders are on this team? Possibly zero. Kolar maybe. A couple of second rounders eventually but they are too young to know for sure.
Oh btw have some of considered the financial ramifications of having to fire and hire another OC that is better than Tom Manning?
 
  • Like
Reactions: besserheimerphat

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
May 20, 2019
9,365
6,901
113
25
From reading a bunch of posts again in this thread, I've seen a pretty consistent theme. Some of you on here never want to give Manning credit when an offensive play design works, but instead give the players credit. On the flip side of things, some of you want to put a load of blame on Manning when a play doesn't work out, instead of maybe acknowledging the fact that our players might not have executed it correctly.

On almost every single play, it's a little bit of both. You also have to factor in the fact that the defense is also, you know, playing the game of football too and have prepared to stop our offense just as much as our offense has prepared to succeed. We're not playing against air here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flycy and CyTwins

ZRF

Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
210
89
28
I've got 2 main gripes with the offense. The first, even though we utilize our tight ends, we do a poor job of utilizing their size. There are few programs (if any) that boast multiple 6-6 + targets at the tight end position yet we rarely (by comparison) throw to them when they are covered. With that kind of size both Chase and Charlie should be viewed as "always open" with a well-placed ball. When you have the protection issues we do this needs to be exploited on routine basis. I'm not sure if it's by design, a hesitancy by Brock, or both but we don't throw the high ball nearly enough.

The other is we often call plays/run routes our offensive line can't block for. The line (with the injuries) often has a difficult time blocking 4+ defenders yet Campbell/Manning keep having receivers run 15-20 yards down the field. When Brock should be throwing the ball the receivers haven't even got out of their routes yet, which creates a lot of issues. I've never understood why we don't utilize more chip blocks (with those big TEs) and exploit that size advantage over the middle of the field. You (theoretically) give Brock more time to throw, you maximize the biggest advantage you have on the field, and it can/will help Brock establish a rhythm. At some point you have to help your QB succeed and I don't think the ISU staff has done a very good job with that. It's even more amplified (OSU for example) when a team dominates the line. You have to call plays that can succeed and you have to develop protection schemes that utilize your strengths.

A third gripe I'll add is the blatant refusal to run any snaps under center when the situation calls for it. On 3rd/4th and short you should NEVER be ceding that advantage back to the defense by snapping/handing off 4-5 yards into the backfield. The shotgun kneels on Saturday brought back flashbacks of the KSU handoffs that put the nails in Rhoads' coffin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: khardbored

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
May 20, 2019
9,365
6,901
113
25
I've got 2 main gripes with the offense. The first, even though we utilize our tight ends, we do a poor job of utilizing their size. There are few programs (if any) that boast multiple 6-6 + targets at the tight end position yet we rarely (by comparison) throw to them when they are covered. With that kind of size both Chase and Charlie should be viewed as "always open" with a well-placed ball. When you have the protection issues we do this needs to be exploited on routine basis. I'm not sure if it's by design, a hesitancy by Brock, or both but we don't throw the high ball nearly enough.

The other is we often call plays/run routes our offensive line can't block for. The line (with the injuries) often has a difficult time blocking 4+ defenders yet Campbell/Manning keep having receivers run 15-20 yards down the field. When Brock should be throwing the ball the receivers haven't even got out of their routes yet, which creates a lot of issues. I've never understood why we don't utilize more chip blocks (with those big TEs) and exploit that size advantage over the middle of the field. You (theoretically) give Brock more time to throw, you maximize the biggest advantage you have on the field, and it can/will help Brock establish a rhythm. At some point you have to help your QB succeed and I don't think the ISU staff has done a very good job with that. It's even more amplified (OSU for example) when a team dominates the line. You have to call plays that can succeed and you have to develop protection schemes that utilize your strengths.

A third gripe I'll add is the blatant refusal to run any snaps under center when the situation calls for it. On 3rd/4th and short you should NEVER be ceding that advantage back to the defense by snapping/handing off 4-5 yards into the backfield. The shotgun kneels on Saturday brought back flashbacks of the KSU handoffs that put the nails in Rhoads' coffin.
1. Kolar and Allen are 2nd and 4th in receptions on the team. They also are 1st and 3rd in receiving TD's. Brock actually does a pretty good job of putting the ball in good spots for them to make plays. Go back to the OU game and you'll find countless times we threw the ball up to Kolar and I believe we got 2-3 PI calls. Just last game, Allen and Kolar caught a TD. Having any gripe about how we use our TE's is uncalled for unless you're saying we use them too much, which could be true.

2. I think Campbell and Manning have done a pretty good job of protecting Brock considering they don't have arguably two of their best lineman AND they don't have their best safety net WR in Milton who's perfect at running the underneath routes. We're in first place in the conference despite those two things for crying out loud.

3. Our running game is designed to run in the shotgun. We are not, have not, and likely will never be a team that lines up under center. We have the best running back in the nation and will always bet on him in gaining 1 yard or less. By your logic, we should never utilize running plays in shotgun because we're technically ceding 5 yards on those plays as well. Welp, Breece Hall is leading the nation in rushing yards despite us running the ball incorrectly. If you think we're the only team that "refuses" to line up under center on short yard plays, you'd be wrong. Tons of spread teams do what we do. Also, we've yet to fumble the snap on shotgun kneels. The likelihood of that happening is about the same as the QB being under center.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CycloneVet

trevn

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Apr 10, 2006
1,493
1,582
113
West-Eastern Iowa
I'm guessing the people that don't want Manning as our OC are the same people that wanted Purdy pulled against Baylor. It's just the guy that has broken I don't know how many records at Iowa State and will likely go down as one of, if not THE best QB we've ever had. But let's pull him. And fire the OC, because...reasons. For a fan base that has not had a lot of nice things in football, we sure have some that like to take a massive crap on the good things we actually do have.
 

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
May 20, 2019
9,365
6,901
113
25
I'm guessing the people that don't want Manning as our OC are the same people that wanted Purdy pulled against Baylor. It's just the guy that has broken I don't know how many records at Iowa State and will likely go down as one of, if not THE best QB we've ever had. But let's pull him. And fire the OC, because...reasons. For a fan base that has not had a lot of nice things in football, we sure have some that like to take a massive crap on the good things we actually do have.
Campbell was not going to pull Brock at that stage, but I'm so glad that Brock stepped up to the challenge presented to him. He was obviously struggling and most of it was his own fault, but he battled through adversity. That's what mentally tough players do. Campbell trusts Brock and Brock trusts Campbell. They have a great chemistry with one another and I'm just incredibly proud with how our junior quarterback played after everything.
 

ZRF

Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
210
89
28
1. I'm well aware of where they rank in receptions. With that said the TYPES of throws they are getting arne't necessarily of the "jump ball" (use the height advantage) variety. Kolar was open by at least 5 yards on his TD the last game and is a poor point of comparison. In games in which our protection has struggled, say OSU for example, we haven't exploited that height advantage. Receivers aren't "open"? Put a well placed ball up there for the TEs to get. Crosses, quick chips and releases...we need more of that to improve protection AND get some completions against the conference elite.

2. What have they done exactly to protect Purdy? Two or three of our top lineman are out yet we still run an abundance of minimal protection (5 lineman) sets. Even worse is many of them aren't even designed to be 1-3 second plays. Much of the early futility against Baylor was due to the constant pressure Purdy was facing (much of which from those sets). Gundy exploited this immensely and I see no reason why Klieman (KSU has a huge line of scrimmage advantage on both sides of the ball) won't do the same. We are first in the conference in spite of our protection. It really is amazing considering injuries, the protection, and the refusal to abandon the (ineffective) 3 man rush. This team has a lot of talent outside of OL and WR. But having less than 3 seconds to throw while giving teams 5+ seconds isn't going to work against better teams. At some point you have to change what consistently isn't working in order to beat the best.

3. I'm not sure what you are contending as you don't address the crux of the argument. I never said shotgun in and of itself is bad, rather that you should be under center in certain situations. There were countless times last year where we refused to run QB sneaks from under center on 4th and <1. The result? A putrid 4th down conversion percentage (somewhere in the 100-115 out of 130 range in FBS). The last thing you want to do in a short yardage situation, with a piss poor OL, is give yourself an extra 4 yards to go (especially when running the ball). Is shotgun bad? Of course not. In a 4th and 1 situation? I'd argue it is for a majority of teams.
 

ZRF

Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
210
89
28
I'm guessing the people that don't want Manning as our OC are the same people that wanted Purdy pulled against Baylor. It's just the guy that has broken I don't know how many records at Iowa State and will likely go down as one of, if not THE best QB we've ever had. But let's pull him. And fire the OC, because...reasons. For a fan base that has not had a lot of nice things in football, we sure have some that like to take a massive crap on the good things we actually do have.
Pulling Purdy would be ridiculous. But criticizing the refusal to alter failing game plans is valid. I'm almost resigned to the fact we will give up > 50% of third and longs because we refuse to bring more than 3 guys greater than 10% of the time. How many times do we have to watch teams find zone soft spots because the QB has all day to throw the ball? How many times will Manning call plays that predictably result in a rushed Purdy throw? I think the biggest flaw of this staff is that they are stubborn to a fault.
 

Statefan10

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
May 20, 2019
9,365
6,901
113
25
1. I'm well aware of where they rank in receptions. With that said the TYPES of throws they are getting arne't necessarily of the "jump ball" (use the height advantage) variety. Kolar was open by at least 5 yards on his TD the last game and is a poor point of comparison. In games in which our protection has struggled, say OSU for example, we haven't exploited that height advantage. Receivers aren't "open"? Put a well placed ball up there for the TEs to get. Crosses, quick chips and releases...we need more of that to improve protection AND get some completions against the conference elite.

2. What have they done exactly to protect Purdy? Two or three of our top lineman are out yet we still run an abundance of minimal protection (5 lineman) sets. Even worse is many of them aren't even designed to be 1-3 second plays. Much of the early futility against Baylor was due to the constant pressure Purdy was facing (much of which from those sets). Gundy exploited this immensely and I see no reason why Klieman (KSU has a huge line of scrimmage advantage on both sides of the ball) won't do the same. We are first in the conference in spite of our protection. It really is amazing considering injuries, the protection, and the refusal to abandon the (ineffective) 3 man rush. This team has a lot of talent outside of OL and WR. But having less than 3 seconds to throw while giving teams 5+ seconds isn't going to work against better teams. At some point you have to change what consistently isn't working in order to beat the best.

3. I'm not sure what you are contending as you don't address the crux of the argument. I never said shotgun in and of itself is bad, rather that you should be under center in certain situations. There were countless times last year where we refused to run QB sneaks from under center on 4th and <1. The result? A putrid 4th down conversion percentage (somewhere in the 100-115 out of 130 range in FBS). The last thing you want to do in a short yardage situation, with a piss poor OL, is give yourself an extra 4 yards to go (especially when running the ball). Is shotgun bad? Of course not. In a 4th and 1 situation? I'd argue it is for a majority of teams.
We don't need to throw jump balls to our TE's when we can scheme up routes where they can get open and use their size to make the catch. You're arguing that we should throw more jump balls to them but they're not lined up on the outsides. You don't throw jump balls to guys in the slots.

We're currently ranked 27th in the nation and #1 in the Big 12 in sacks given up. That's pretty darn good if you ask me. I also don't know how you're even trying to discredit Heacock and our defensive scheme when it's actually been INCREDIBLY effective. How in the hell could you say it hasn't been?? And you're saying we have to change what's not working to beat the best... We are currently the best.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CycloneVet