Could Otz be the end of Hoiberg's coaching career?

AuH2O

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Miles was mediocre overall, but he did make a tournament and a few NITs.

His second to last year he went 13-5 in conference, but the B10 was so weak that year they didn't make the dance.

So, he wasn't a smashing success, but they were at least competitive. Really no reason for Fred to be doing as poorly as he has.
I’m never going to trash a power conference school for firing a guy that like Miles. I had enough national media tools shitting on ISU and our fans for firing Mac and Rhoads and that we should be happy with some 5-6 win seasons.
 

shadow

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At Tech too.

South Carolina loss early on was also weird.

The buzz phrase lately has been 'return to the mean' and the UAB game was that.
A common denominator on some of the weird losses that year was early games. I don't remember all of the details but it seemed like their record on noon or earlier games was poor.
 

Cyched

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I’m never going to trash a power conference school for firing a guy that like Miles. I had enough national media tools shitting on ISU and our fans for firing Mac and Rhoads and that we should be happy with some 5-6 win seasons.

No, and it was time for Nubs to move on. But I’m saying even a mediocre coach like Miles at least did something while he was there. Fred tanking them so spectacularly is honestly perplexing.
 

shadow

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I’m never going to trash a power conference school for firing a guy that like Miles. I had enough national media tools shitting on ISU and our fans for firing Mac and Rhoads and that we should be happy with some 5-6 win seasons.
Agreed. Miles was 116-114 (52-76) which is ok but not Ok enough if you have just spent a bunch of money on new facilities.
 

Soc54

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Each coach has his own style of play. Fred was a great recruiter. He got players that could play his style of offensive basketball. Those teams were never defensive teams. They always got out rebounded. That was his style he played. It worked here but it doesn't seem to work any place else especially the nba. Fred's a great guy but as a coach he'll never be great. He's fortunate and I'm happy for him that he's made good money. Just my opinion
 
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Pope

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I believe Fred was paid $40 million by the Bulls. Not sure how many millions he earned from ISU and Nebraska combined, but it's probably at least that much. He's a smart guy, so I'm sure he has taken good care of his fortune, which means he has achieved lifetime financial security for he and his wife, his children, his children's children, and probably his children's children's children. Not feeling sorry for him.
 
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WhoISthis

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It’s possible. Though Hogue had that many opportunities simply because he was forced into the role. And he went 15-19. It might have been the one game in 100 that he’s going to go 15-19, but it happened to be that game when pushed into that role.

This wasn’t a good player having a really good game. This a guy that didn’t get plays run for him typically forced into that role and having a completely off the charts, all-timer type of efficient game.
It’s reasonable to think there’s many possible game scripts for any matchup, and adding an AA and changing lineup structure to alter it to enough to close the gap. Just running it back could have imo, there’s that much variance in that these matchups


But on adding Georges, is Daniels for UConn less likely to go off? Hoiball was big on using offense as defense, and I think he helps there, particularly since Daniels would have been defending him. On the other end, even a poor defender like Georges would have helped on the 6’9” Daniels, as well as maybe have Hogue focus on defense. Daniels backing down Kane, Hogue and our guards, and our resulting need to double, was brutal to watch.

Anyway, to those using the tournament as the “underachieving” metric, it’s not really underachieving to lose to the eventual national champs in the S16. At that point its basically a toss up game and reasonable to think our ability to win impacted by not having an AA. Or in the second round as with the UK game in 2012. Or losing a painfully close 10vs2 matchup with some adversity. The UAB loss is underachieving but Hoiberg may have already gone by then .

Getting in those positions are underachieving, particularly 2012-13 and 2013-14
 
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CYEATHAWK

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It’s reasonable to think there’s many possible game scripts for any matchup, and adding an AA and changing lineup structure to alter it to enough to close the gap. Just running it back could have imo, there’s that much variance in that these matchups


But on adding Georges, is Daniels for UConn less likely to go off? Hoiball was big on using offense as defense, and I think he helps there, particularly since Daniels would have been defending him. On the other end, even a poor defender like Georges would have helped on the 6’9” Daniels, as well as maybe have Hogue focus on defense. Daniels backing down Kane, Hogue and our guards, and our resulting need to double, was brutal to watch.

Anyway, to those using the tournament as the “underachieving” metric, it’s not really underachieving to lose to the eventual national champs in the S16. At that point its basically a toss up game and reasonable to think our ability to win impacted by not having an AA. Or in the second round as with the UK game in 2012. Or losing a painfully close 10vs2 matchup with some adversity. The UAB loss is underachieving but Hoiberg may have already gone by then .

Getting in those positions are underachieving, particularly 2012-13 and 2013-14


Let's be clear.............the "underachieving metric" was born by those on this site who had to think of something rash for his good years because they didn't want to give Steve Prohm credit for anything from day 1. That's it, and that's all. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything Fred did while at ISU.
 

WhoISthis

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Let's be clear.............the "underachieving metric" was born by those on this site who had to think of something rash for his good years because they didn't want to give Steve Prohm credit for anything from day 1. That's it, and that's all. It has absolutely nothing to do with anything Fred did while at ISU.
Lol, you have an odd obsession with making everything about this fantasy you have that Steve was unfairly viewed.

He wasn’t. He just wasn’t a good P5 coach. Some needed 0-18 to see that, others picked up on it far earlier. Perhaps some day you’ll realize it too.
 

CYEATHAWK

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Lol, you have an odd obsession with making everything about this fantasy you have that Steve was unfairly viewed.

He wasn’t. He just wasn’t a good P5 coach. Some needed 0-18 to see that, others picked up on it far earlier. Perhaps some day you’ll realize it too.

Like shooting fish in a bowl. So he did a great job his first 3 of 4 years?
 
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SCNCY

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I believe Fred was paid $40 million by the Bulls. Not sure how many millions he earned from ISU and Nebraska combined, but it's probably at least that much. He's a smart guy, so I'm sure he has taken good care of his fortune, which means he has achieved lifetime financial security for he and his wife, his children, his children's children, and probably his children's children's children. Not feeling sorry for him.

I think his contract was 5 mil a year for 5 years. But you also have to factor in his 10 year NBA playing career after college. Given he seems to be down to earth, I’m sure he invested a decent amount of those earnings. At a young age, that has probably grown nicely.
 

WhoISthis

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What if Daniel Edozie didn’t start for us in a Sweet 16 game? We can dare to dream.
Maybe he should have played more?
We trailed by 10+ points for nearly half the game, closing it once UConn started to go in prevent.
I think Daniels was the only one to score for UConn the first 7-8 minutes of the second half as they pushed the lead to 17. Hogue had what 6 at the half and 12 the first 25+ minutes?

After getting down big we had to go small and Hogue really poured it on, but the game was largely decided before that.
 

WhoISthis

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Like shooting fish in a bowl. So he did a great job his first 3 of 4 years?

Not a great job. He neither built anything or added value to what was built.

Was he a good coach and suddenly forgot, or were there always signs? Lol, the narrative that people didn’t like Prohm because he wasn’t Hoiberg was for fools then, and just for you now. What a hill for you to die on. Your choice and it’s entertaining.
 

t-noah

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Taking a look at both of these guys' March performance:

Fred:
2011-12: 8 seed, beat the 9, lost to the 1. Chalk.

2012-13: 10 seed, beat the 7, lost to the 2. Overachieved, almost by a lot but for Aaron Craft.

2013-14: 3 seed, beat the 14 and the 6, lost to the 7 in Sweet 16. Think you gotta call this one chalk considering Niang injury and that the 7 seed ended up winning the natty.

2014-15: 3 seed, lost to the 14. Huge underachievement.

Prohm:
2015-16: 4 seed, beat the 13 and the 12, lost to the 1. Chalk.

2016-17: 5 seed, beat the 12, lost to the 4. Chalk.

2018-19: 6 seed, lost to the 11. Underachievement.

It's mostly what you would have expected based on seed. 2015 obviously sticks out like a sore thumb. 2019 was in hindsight the beginning of the end for Prohm as well. The only team that outplayed its seed at all was in 2013 and that team was inches away from a Sweet 16 as a 10 seed.
Argh, Prohm. You could say he almost completely lost it in the 2017-18 season. It was his third season as coach, all of Hoiberg's guys gone, and nothing! What saved him in his first two years was getting DeAndre Burton! Kid was a stud. [And of course Hoiberg's guys.]

He definitely got a reprieve in 2018-19 with how well Shayok played, and the recruiting of THT, and Tyrese H. Then a healthy Tyrese thru his entire year 2 wouldn't have likely saved 2019-20. True colors showed again last year, 2020-21. Ouch.
 

Cyforce

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Don't forget about the Nebraska Football-Creighton Basketball hybrids out there!
I went to a game in Omaha, probably around 1990. The guy taking parking money said to me, we kicked your ass in football. I replied, I didn't know Creighton had a football team.

EDIT: just looked it up, January of 91.
 

isutrevman

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Guess I just never bought the idea that ISU would’ve won that game with Niang. The result of the Niang injury was an expanded offensive role for Hogue and he played completely out of his mind and had arguably the best game a Cyclone has ever had in the tourney. And UConn answered every run to keep ISU at arms length all game long.
Agree. We would have had a better chance, but it was still going to be a tough win. UConn went all the way for a reason.